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  • #91
    Originally posted by tomcat
    Southern Italian matches would be a different story.
    So which populations would indicate actual mediterranean ancestry rather than something Germanic or Celtic?
    As well as Italian what Spanish populations might be more "southern" if that makes sense?
    Last edited by burto; 14 April 2008, 11:49 AM.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by burto
      So which populations would indicate actual mediterranean ancestry rather than something Germanic or Celtic?
      As well as Italian what Spanish populations might be more "southern" if that makes sense?
      In Tribes universe Mediterranean includes Northern Italy, Southern France, all of Iberia and all islands between Spain and Italy. AbDNA doesn't have a Mediterranean category for Euro 2.0 but think they have one for Euro 1.0 (I don't really follow that closely as I don't qualify for it).

      Again in Tribes universe, Southern Italy is Aegean and that region includes the Balkans, Greece, most of Turkey and Crete but not Cyprus. I believe in AbDNA universe that region would be Southeast Europe, at least in part.

      So, Mediterranean seems to depend on which universe is being queried. It is difficult to compare Tribes and AbDNA as each sorts regions by the marker results and they have different sets of markers.
      Last edited by tomcat; 14 April 2008, 12:03 PM.

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      • #93
        I see. Mum got nothing special on the Euro 1.0 for SE, but she did get a large 22% South Asian together with 65% NE which according to them includes Spain. They did say she does qualify for the Euro 2.0 but I suppose it won't explain the South Asian.
        With Tribes her last 2 updates have Med as her top world match with matches to Ibiza, Tuscany, Sicily, Jewish (Israel), and areas around Greece.
        Her Spain matches are Cantabria, Spain and Buenos Aires. Interestingly, although it's not her top match, her Sicily Tribes score is (0.91) Buenos Aires is (0.98)!!!
        Which makes me think maybe there is a Med link but how would I know using these tests? It seems any match to Iberia is considered Celtic which for us with British ancestry could be a problem?
        Last edited by burto; 14 April 2008, 01:36 PM.

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        • #94
          Nations Considered "Continental European"

          Burto,

          According to the Euro DNA 2.0 user manual, "Continental European" includes - for instance - Germany, France, Britain, Ireland and (to a large degree) Poland. I never thought of Britain and Ireland as "continental" such as they are, after all, islands - but all these countries apparently have a lot in common.

          The user manual doesn't provide percentages from the samples, but I did attempt to estimate them by eyeballing the bar charts. The Continental European component for West Irish and East English appears to be on average between 60 and 70 percent. The Northeastern European component for those samples appears to be about 5 percent, give or take, the Southeastern European component about 15 percent, and the Iberian component about 8 percent. My Iberian percent of nearly 16 percent is exceeds the average of all the primarily Continental European samples, and seems almost twice the average of the English and Irish samples. (Maybe my grandfather's claim that we were descended from a Spanish sailor washed up on the shores of Donegal has some truth to it...) Otherwise, my results resemble the English and Irish samples more than the German, Polish or French.

          The Spanish sample, of course, is primarily Iberian.

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          • #95
            Could Ashkenazi Map With Iberian/Southeast Eur. Combo?

            Originally posted by tomcat
            Good to hear of a successful, or at least agreeable, testing experience.

            Although Tribes and AbDNA's European regions do differ, I would think your Slovenian and Ashkenazi Tribes matches better fit with AbDNA's Southeast Europe than any of your three Italian matches all of which affiliate with Continental Europe or Northeast Iberia. Southern Italian matches would be a different story.

            If one divided Europe simply east-west, the majority of your Tribes Top 20 matches are eastern, and northerly, whereas your AbDNA eastern matches are more southerly. But based just on the number of matches, Tribes seems to indicate more eastern ancestry than AbDNA.

            I agree that AbDNA ought to be more accurate for its larger marker set of SNP's versus STR's and for it being based on a formal population study. Tribes database is assembled 'catch-as-catch-can' and seems unbalanced. I mean, Poland is interesting, but is there any good reason for it being represented by fourteen population samples versus four for France including two from Corsica?
            tomcat,

            Interesting that you should mention the Ashkenazi match as a Southeast European component. The Ashkenazi affinity may have an indirect Iberian component as well, as suggested by the latest Native Matches for the Ashkenazi sample at the DNA Tribes website.

            I have two other Jewish matches in my top 40, and the DNA Tribes Europa test rates my highest region match as Ashkenazi. Here is the whole set of region scores below:

            Ashkenazi (0.52) --- 350.15
            Italian (0.41) --- 91.35
            Norse (0.37) --- 83.97
            Polish (0.41) --- 78.23
            Russian (0.42) --- 76.73
            Finno-Ugrian (0.43) --- 72.78
            Celtic (0.26) --- 58.25
            Germanic (0.34) --- 54.65
            Greek (0.41) --- 49.10
            Balkan (0.34) --- 47.15
            Spanish (0.22) --- 27.15
            Portuguese (0.15) --- 13.30
            Basque (0.13) --- 9.26


            Although I have occasionally been asked if I were Jewish, I am not - so these results are a mystery to me. If there is any legitimate correspondence between this Ashkenazi CODIS affinity and the Euro DNA 2.0 results, it must reflect the combination of Continental European, Southeast European and Iberian in my DNA - not any one of these elements alone.

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            • #96
              Hi,

              I just received my EuroDNA 2.0 test results yesterday.

              In my case there are two possibilities:

              - DNA sample mixed up with someone else DNA sample (which is probably extremely rare)
              - The autosomal DNA tests "don't work" with my strange DNA

              According to DNAPrint results, It seems that I'm more Iberian than Iberian themselves !
              If I add Southeastern Europe it makes more than 80% of my results.
              Based on the graph (at DnaPrint) only some Iberians, Greeks...have such results.

              The main "problem" is that my roots are at the Northern "extremities" of Europe (Norway/Sweden & N. Poland).

              So you can imagine that I'm a little bit surprised by those results.
              I have some friends from Spain & some from Greece. I had some fun to tell them that.They were even more surprised than me !

              Someone told me, some months ago, that only the Y-DNA and Mt-DNA tests were accurate. I think that I begin to believe him.

              Another possibility is that my DNA is really strange !
              According to my DecodeGenetics (DecodeMe) results, the regions that have the most similarities to mine are "Orcadians" (British Isles) followed by "France" (Continental Europe). So I expected to get CE or NEE has the main results at DNAPrint! ...and I don't tell you what were my DNATribes results.

              None of those tests goes in the same direction (in my case).

              Well...I think that I'll only trust the YDNA & MtDNA results.

              Nordvarg

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              • #97
                Originally posted by jvance_elliott
                tomcat,

                Interesting that you should mention the Ashkenazi match as a Southeast European component. The Ashkenazi affinity may have an indirect Iberian component as well, as suggested by the latest Native Matches for the Ashkenazi sample at the DNA Tribes website.

                I have two other Jewish matches in my top 40, and the DNA Tribes Europa test rates my highest region match as Ashkenazi. Here is the whole set of region scores below:
                ...
                Although I have occasionally been asked if I were Jewish, I am not - so these results are a mystery to me. If there is any legitimate correspondence between this Ashkenazi CODIS affinity and the Euro DNA 2.0 results, it must reflect the combination of Continental European, Southeast European and Iberian in my DNA - not any one of these elements alone.
                A recent SNP study of American Caucasians was able to separate Ashkenazi from SE Euro, with which Ashkenazi usually affiliates. Spanish Jews, Sephardim, are not so very different DNA-wise, so your conjecture may bear weight.

                Anyhow, I wasn't attempting to make you Jewish, simply suggesting that your Ashkenazi and Slovenian matches better fit to your DNAP SE Euro scores than your Northern Italian matches that would most likely affiliate to Continental Europe or Tribes Mediterranean.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by jvance_elliott
                  ...
                  Ashkenazi (0.52) --- 350.15
                  Italian (0.41) --- 91.35
                  Norse (0.37) --- 83.97
                  Polish (0.41) --- 78.23
                  Russian (0.42) --- 76.73
                  Finno-Ugrian (0.43) --- 72.78
                  Celtic (0.26) --- 58.25
                  Germanic (0.34) --- 54.65
                  Greek (0.41) --- 49.10
                  Balkan (0.34) --- 47.15
                  Spanish (0.22) --- 27.15
                  Portuguese (0.15) --- 13.30
                  Basque (0.13) --- 9.26

                  ...
                  These Europa results agree with the Euro 2.0 results to a degree. They give opposite readings on (consolidated) Iberian ancestry - Euro 2.0 gave you more than 20% Iberian but Europa puts your Iberian cluster at the bottom of the list. The two tests seem to agree that you are more southeast than northeast European - if you add-up Europa scores for Ashkenazi, Greek and Balkan and compare to totals for Polish, Russian and Finno-Ugrian. But you would have to total Italian, Norse, Celtic and Germanic (and steal a bit from Poland) to approximate your Euro 2.0 continental European percentage for a reading on your known ancestry.

                  You could also compare your World Region scores from the standard Tribes report to Euro 2.0 and Europa to see if there is any agreement among the three at that level.

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                  • #99
                    Well I just got my EURO-DNA 2.0 results in today and I am actually pleased with them. They match my paper trail ancestry quite well actually. I was expecting some more Northeastern European DNA but maybe I just did not inherit very much of it from my paternal grandmother.

                    Here are my results:
                    Continental European: 47.0%
                    Southeastern European: 23.6%
                    Iberian: 14.4%
                    Northeastern European: 7.6%
                    Basque: 5.6%

                    Comment


                    • Euro DNA 2.0 vs. DNA Tribes

                      Originally posted by tomcat
                      These Europa results agree with the Euro 2.0 results to a degree. They give opposite readings on (consolidated) Iberian ancestry - Euro 2.0 gave you more than 20% Iberian but Europa puts your Iberian cluster at the bottom of the list. The two tests seem to agree that you are more southeast than northeast European - if you add-up Europa scores for Ashkenazi, Greek and Balkan and compare to totals for Polish, Russian and Finno-Ugrian. But you would have to total Italian, Norse, Celtic and Germanic (and steal a bit from Poland) to approximate your Euro 2.0 continental European percentage for a reading on your known ancestry.

                      You could also compare your World Region scores from the standard Tribes report to Euro 2.0 and Europa to see if there is any agreement among the three at that level.
                      tomcat,

                      My top World Region scores are as follows:

                      Northwest European (0.33) --- 78.29
                      Finno-Ugrian (0.45) --- 72.78
                      Eastern European (0.36) --- 53.71
                      Aegean (0.46) --- 47.41
                      Mediterranean (0.27) --- 32.60
                      Levantine (0.29) --- 23.33
                      Mesopotamian (0.19) --- 10.01
                      ...


                      These accord more closely with the Euro DNA 2.0 scores - all except for the high Finno-Ugrian, which would seem to require a correspondingly high Northeastern European score on the ABDNA test. Ah, well...

                      Comment


                      • The percentages of Iberian that are being found in people who are of British/Irish descent may be ancestry that is originally from the Iberian peninsula that got to the British Isles/Ireland after the last big ice age. It makes good sense to me anyways.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by J Man
                          The percentages of Iberian that are being found in people who are of British/Irish descent may be ancestry that is originally from the Iberian peninsula that got to the British Isles/Ireland after the last big ice age. It makes good sense to me anyways.
                          It does to me too. I have more multiple matches to Portugal than to anywhere else and my ancestry is mostly from the British Isles.
                          A good book to read is : Saxons, Vikings, and Celts: The Genetic Roots of Britain and Ireland by Bryan Sykes.
                          He concluded that the majority of British Isles genes came from the ancient (Celtic) Iberians. In the back of the book are tables of various ydna and mtdna halpogroups found in the British Isles with percentages for various regions.
                          Last edited by rainbow; 19 April 2008, 08:09 PM.

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                          • I remember the president of DNA Testing at DNA Consultants Donald N. Yates said that many people who are of or have British ancestry register with a good detectable amount of Iberian DNA on the EURO-DNA 2.0 test as well. I know that a lot of people do not like Yates but it is still interesting none the less.

                            Comment


                            • What I'd like to know is what's a good detectable amount and how does someone who's half British determine whether, say an unknown Grandparent, was actually Spanish?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by burto
                                What I'd like to know is what's a good detectable amount and how does someone who's half British determine whether, say an unknown Grandparent, was actually Spanish?

                                I would say that a good detectable amount would be an Iberian score that is in the teens.

                                The only way to determine if an unknown grandparent was actually SPanish i guess would be to take the test or try and continue paper trail research.

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