R1b1c9 & R1b1c10 Testing

[racin500]

I just received the results of my FTDNA Deep Subclade Test and it confirms my group as R1b1c. EthnoAncestry is offering an R1b FT Upgrade for FTDNA customers. They are testing S21, S26, S28 and S29.

Does anyone have a comment as to the accuracy or value of having this test done?

[Rick]

I just received the results of my FTDNA Deep Subclade Test and it confirms my group as R1b1c. EthnoAncestry is offering an R1b FT Upgrade for FTDNA customers. They are testing S21, S26, S28 and S29.

Does anyone have a comment as to the accuracy or value of having this test done?

As to accuracy, Ethnoancestry is a reputable firm. They have been around for several years (long enough in this new market). The S-series SNPs they offer are tests for the remaining known subclades of R1b1c that FTDNA does not test for (btw, S68 (test for R1b1c11) is brand new, and I believe is now also part of the Ethnoancestry FT-upgrade you mentioned). The Ethnoancestry tests complete the known subclades by testing for R1b1c9, R1b1c9a, R1b1c9b, R1b1c10, and R1b1c11.

As to value, that is somewhat subjective, depending on how badly you want to discover your subclade of R1b1c. Of course, you could end up being like me (and approx. 50% of R1b1c), and test negative for all the known subclades -- still R1b1c* and waiting for the next SNP discovery.

[MMaddi]

It depends on how interested you are in finding out your R1b1c subclade and possible deep ancestry.

If you have 67 markers and your DYS492=13, you probably will test S21+. Also, if you don't have 67 markers, but have DYS390=23, that might indicate a decent chance of being S21+, although about 33% of S21+ people have the R1b modal DYS390=24 (or even 25).

Presently, there's no marker that seems to be an indicator of S28+ status. The haplotypes of known S28+ people are very divergent, with many close to the plain vanilla Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype (WAMH).

S21+ (R1b1c9) and its subclades S26 (R1b1c9a) and S29 (R1b1c9b) are thought to represent deep ancestry in northern Europe, especially along the north European coast, from the Netherlands to Denmark and southern Norway. However, there are a few men with southern European ancestry (including 1 from Spain - via Mexico, 3 from Italy and 1 from Romania) who are S21+, so that needs to be explained. Ethnoancestry estimates that 20-25% of European ancestry R1b's will test S21+.

S28+ (R1b1c10) is thought to be found at high levels among those with southern German, northern Italian and Swiss ancestry. But there are also S28+ men with Polish and Greek ancestry. David Faux, who is S28+ and is an officer of Ethnoancestry, believes that S28+ status indicates ancestry from the La Tene Celts of central Europe, but many people regard that as speculative. Ethnoancestry estimates that 10% of European ancestry R1b's will test S28+.

So if you match any of the indicators of S21+ or S28+ status I've mentioned above or are really curious about your possible deep ancestry, I would say, go ahead and test the S-series at Ethnoancestry.

Mike Maddi

[vineviz]

It depends on how interested you are in finding out your R1b1c subclade and possible deep ancestry.

If you have 67 markers and your DYS492=13, you probably will test S21+. Also, if you don't have 67 markers, but have DYS390=23, that might indicate a decent chance of being S21+, although about 33% of S21+ people have the R1b modal DYS390=24 (or even 25).

AVCAE has a couple of medium-distance neighbors on ysearch who have apparently tested into R1b1c9: DYYG8, F6C85, SE3TA and others.

http://www.ysearch.org/research_comparative.asp?uid=AVCAE&vallist=avcae%2CDYYG8%2C+F6C85%2C+HEAG3%2C+MCX5F%2C+F323W%2C+SE3TA%2C+ZV3N9%2C+6JMAK%2C+HN2UD%2C+KMBEJ%2C+36YPT%2C+TMMN6%2C+U43Q3%2C+WMNHP%2C+QXNRD

The GD is 9+, so I'd say that AVACAE could go either way but the odds are probably better than average of being R1b1c9.

Vince

[R2-D2]

I just wanted to add that the S68 SNP that defines R1b1c11 has been found in samples from Scotland and Sweden.

Also, EthnoAncestry is working on three other R1b SNPs that they were hoping to make available this summer.

[johnraciti]

Normans and more Normans...

Normans and more Normans... Mike

[johnraciti]

null439 - R1b1c9a

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/null439

R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29

R1b1c9a

18 50398 Atkins R1b1 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 16 18 10 11 19 23 15 16 18 16 38 39 12 12
19 17829 Hazlewood R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 16 16 10 11 19 23 16 16 17 17 37 39 12 12
20 10817 Hazelwood R1b1 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 16 16 10 11 19 23 16 16 17 17 37 39 12 12
21 82213 Elliott R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 16 16 10 11 19 23 16 16 18 17 39 40 12 12
22 61641 Arthur R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 9 11 11 24 15 19 29 15 16 16 17 12 11 19 23 16 15 17 16 37 40 12 12
23 37977 Atkins R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 14 15 16 10 11 19 23 15 16 18 16 38 39 12 12
24 25863 Atkins R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 16 18 10 11 19 23 15 16 18 16 37 38 12 12
25 66453 Atkins R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 16 18 10 11 19 23 15 16 18 16 37 39 12 12
26 25841 Atkins R1b1 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 16 18 10 11 19 23 15 16 18 16 38 38 12 12
27 80794 Hazelwood R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 16 16 10 11 19 23 16 16 19 17 37 39 12 12
28 69306 Lawrence R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 30 15 16 16 17 11 11 19 23 15 16 16 16 38 38 11 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 15 10 12 12 16 8 12 23 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 13 12
29 23316 Butler R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 30 16 16 16 17 10 11 19 19 17 16 17 17 38 38 12 12
30 52383 Silver R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 16 16 17 11 11 19 23 16 15 17 18 37 39 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 16 10 12 12 16 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 13 12
31 49557 Rofe R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29


Scottish
English Anglo-Saxon
Irish, Scottish
Irish, Scottish Gaelic
English Anglo-Saxon
German, Irish Anglo-French Gaelic
English, German
English Normans

[F.E.C.]

I'll try again: do you have a null 439, John?