RussiaDNA - Dual Geographical Projec

[T E Peterman]

BR normally means all y-DNA haplogroups, excluding A. If you look at the cladistical tree for y-DNA, you will note that after the MRCA of all men, the first branch is between A & the rest of humanity. The very important branch representing the rest of humanity didn't have a letter assigned to it, so it is now called BR, meaning it encompasses all groups from B to R.

Timothy Peterman

[cacio]

Grigoriev:

B is an African haplogroup. D is Asian (eg Tibet, Japan). But as some people were saying elsewhere, this is almost certainly a mistake in the cited paper - as there is simply little or no African contribution outside of that continent. If one had the haplotypes, it could be useful to run them through Athey's predictor to see if one can understand what those mistaken haplogroups really are.

cacio

[Grigoriev]

"BR"... like "A" is Afican haplogroup or I have a mistake knowledge?

[lgmayka]

The Results tab of your project has a table of haplogroup percentages in various Russian populations. I am very curious about the so-called BR*, which I think is actually BR(xC,E,F). The percentage of this category exceeds 10% in Nizhniy Novgorod, and is at least 5% in Kaluga and Pskov.

BR(xC,E,F) includes haplogroups B and D. It would be very interesting to read the full research paper and its associated supplemental data, to see what haplotypes fell into this category. Unfortunately, I do not see the paper available for free online.

[lgmayka]

Whether legally I began construction of a Tree? Or it is necessary to act any different way?

The issues I see are:

1) Are you weighting all markers equally? Some people advocate weighting the markers according to mutation rate. For example, the marker weight could be inversely proportional to the square root of the mutation rate. Thus, markers that change rarely, like DYS388 and DYS392, would be given more weight.

2) 12 markers is not always enough to distinguish haplogroups.

3) For simple identification of one's haplogroup, Athey's predictor

https://home.comcast.net/~hapest5/hapest5b/hapest5.htm

is better for the categories it covers. Obviously, Athey's predictor is of no help in detecting a rare haplogroup like F, a mostly non-European haplogroup like O, or an unusual subhaplogroup like R1b1b.

[Grigoriev]

Thank you, Larry!

But other my question is...

Whether legally I began construction of a Tree? Or it is necessary to act any different way?

[lgmayka]

The R1b1 that is clustering with N has undergone a large deletion at DYS390. In fact, this is a strong indication that he actually belongs to R1b1b, a rare subhaplogroup. Here is an excerpt from a discussion on R1b1b:

http://italydna.blogspot.com/2006/11/what-do-we-know-about-r1b1b.html

---
Additionally two of the M73+ in the Cinnioglu paper (haplotypes 442 and 443) have interesting values for DYS390. These two samples have DYS390=19, which is far below the reported value for this marker in any other published R1b samples. DYS390 is a multi-segment locus, and in rare cases the normally invariant flanking segments (DYS390.1, DYS390.2, and DYS390.3) mutate or suffer a deletion (partial or comple). The phenomenon was described by Peter Forster in an excellent 1998 paper, Phylogenetic Resolution of Complex Mutational Features at Y-STR DYS390 in Aboriginal Australians and Papuans.
---

As usual, I am torn between suggesting that he order a deepSNP test to verify that he indeed belongs to R1b1b, vs. suggesting that he order more markers in order to provide genetic ancestry researchers with more information about this rare subhaplogroup.

[Grigoriev]

I will translate later...

Я решил попробовать построить дендограмму проекта. Сразу возник вопрос. Каким образом лучше строить дендограммы подобных выборок (несколько разных гаплогрупп)?
Прошу рассматривать мое построение, как попытку начать "упорядочивать" данные проекта, как поиск решения, чтобы потом представить его в должном виде на всеобщее обозрение.

Представляю вашему вниманию, для ознакомления и критики, несколько тестовых версий дандограммы проекта RussiaDNA (12 маркеров "FTDNA").

Версия 1.1 "с модальным гаплотипом"
RussiaDNA_12_1_1_mod

Версия 1.2 "без модального гаплотипа"
RussiaDNA_12_1_2

Жду замечаний и предложений. Может устроим "разбор полетов"?



----------------

Рассматривая версию без модальника (RusDNA_12_2.pdf) мы видим, что:

1) R1a, R1a1 и один R1b находятся в одном кластере. Другой R1b1 примкнул к лагерю N.

2) О3а5 находится в кластере с J2

3) E3b и E3b1 держутся "по-братски" в сторонке, также как и гаплогруппа I1b стоит обособленно, не размешиваясь "посторонними"...

Всё бы хорошо, но путает картину слияние O3a5 с J2, и, разбавление гаплогруппы N одним из R1b (было бы несколько понятнее, если бы это был R1a или нет?)
Наверное, мною допущена какая-то ошибка...

----------------
А что вырисовывается в версии с модальником (RusDNA_12_1_mod.pdf)?
Кажется все то же самое, только ветви чуть смещены... А "разделения и примыкания" остались прежними...

[Grigoriev]

The first step of our project - the first 10 participants were registered now!
There are :
I1 Hg and subclades
J1 Haplogroup
J2 Hg and subclades
N Hg and subclades
O3 Hg and subclades
R1 Hg and subclades

[Grigoriev]

You appeared the rights!

[rsychev]

There are several haplogroups in the project now.. And it is not the end yet!!!
I1b, J2, N, O3 haplogroups..

So, what haplogroups are will be next??

R1a will be next, I think

[Grigoriev]

There are several haplogroups in the project now.. And it is not the end yet!!!
I1b, J2, N, O3 haplogroups..

So, what haplogroups are will be next??

[Grigoriev]

Yes, you right, vraatyah!

[vraatyah]

including ... and medieval Rus

thus all the west european nobility is welcomed?

[Grigoriev]

New Dual Geographical Project - RussiaDNA - is available!

This project is intended for everyone whose genealogical roots, along the patrilineal or matrilineal line or both, lie in Russia (including the former Soviet Union, the old Russian Empire, and medieval Rus). The project expects to cover all of the Federal Republics and nations of the Commonwealth of Independent States.

In Russian:
Данный проект предназначен для всех, чьи генеалогические корни по отцовской или материнской линиям ( или обоим линиям одновременно ) принадлежат Современной России ( бывшему СССР, Российской Империи или Древней Руси ). Проект предполагает охват всех Союзных Республик и стран СНГ ).

I shall be glad to listen constructive criticism, ways of updating of the project, a wishes and other comments.