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  • rainbow
    replied
    Originally posted by Kaiser
    Is the discussion here about "Indus Valley Civilisation"?
    Yes, you're right. I had started by saying that I too am matched to Pakistan in my DNATRIBES report. It's one of my top matches. I do think that the people of the Indus Valley dispersed in various directions. Obviously some went to Europe.

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  • Kaiser
    replied
    Is the discussion here about "Indus Valley Civilisation"?

    Leave a comment:


  • rainbow
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Honeychuck
    Rainbow,

    John called your attention to the principle of relative strength of match. Please post the numbers only for your match scores above 100. Or if you have a lot of them, just the match scores above 300 or 500.

    Jim
    I have nothing in the hundreds. My highest score is 12.5 Portugal, from December 2006. My extended/updated report of January 2007 has Portugal at 13.0.

    I'm 1/4 Czech and my Czech Republic match is 1.45
    My Wales match is 3.19.
    My lowest match is Iceland, 1.07.
    Last edited by rainbow; 15 June 2007, 09:36 PM.

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  • rainbow
    replied
    Originally posted by Johnserrat
    DNATribes does not really "match" you to 254 populations. For example, if you get results like A-150, B-50, C-25, D-5, and E-1, what it means is that, based on your particular blend of STRs, you are 3 times more likely to find your relatives among population A than population B and 150 times more likely to find your relatives among A than E. Only your top few results should have any significance to you and any others should be ignored for statistical reasons (which is easier in theory than practice ).

    John
    DNATRIBES said 1.0 and above.
    My Czech and Welsh matches are near the bottom of the 254 matches. I know I am part Welsh & Czech, that is clearly documented in my family tree.

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  • rainbow
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Honeychuck
    Rainbow,

    John called your attention to the principle of relative strength of match. Please post the numbers only for your match scores above 100. Or if you have a lot of them, just the match scores above 300 or 500.

    Jim
    I don't know what you're talking about. You must have a completely different report than mine. I have nothing in the hundreds. My highest goes into the teens. From 1.00, I have 254 matches.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Honeychuck
    replied
    Originally posted by rainbow
    My parents are not from widely diverging ethnic communities. They have the same ethnic background, British, with the exception of my fathers side also having Czech,& Dutch. And, according to AncestryByDna, Native American.

    Why then, would DNATRIBES match me to 254 out of 567?
    Rainbow,

    John called your attention to the principle of relative strength of match. Please post the numbers only for your match scores above 100. Or if you have a lot of them, just the match scores above 300 or 500.

    Jim

    Leave a comment:


  • Johnserrat
    replied
    Originally posted by rainbow
    My parents are not from widely diverging ethnic communities. They have the same ethnic background, British, with the exception of my fathers side also having Czech,& Dutch. And, according to AncestryByDna, Native American.

    Why then, would DNATRIBES match me to 254 out of 567?
    DNATribes does not really "match" you to 254 populations. For example, if you get results like A-150, B-50, C-25, D-5, and E-1, what it means is that, based on your particular blend of STRs, you are 3 times more likely to find your relatives among population A than population B and 150 times more likely to find your relatives among A than E. Only your top few results should have any significance to you and any others should be ignored for statistical reasons (which is easier in theory than practice ).

    John

    Leave a comment:


  • rainbow
    replied
    Originally posted by Johnserrat
    Rainbow:

    The following are quotes from DNATribes:

    "DNA Tribes Genetic Ancestry Analysis is a service that uses genetic material inherited from both maternal and paternal ancestors to measure your genetic connections to individual ethnic groups and major world regions. Your top ranked results indicate places where your blend of ancestry is most frequent and where your genetic ancestors left the strongest traces."

    "DNA Tribes unique autosomal analysis complements other types of genetic tests, by using DNA passed down equally from male and female ancestors. The autosomal STRs tested by DNA Tribes are passed down from both male and female and both lineal and non-lineal ancestors. Each person inherits a unique combination of these autosomal STRs. DNA Tribes identifies the individual ethnic groups and world regions where a person's total combination of ancestry is most frequent or common."

    As your chances of inheriting each autosomal STR are 50/50 between each parent, the odds of any STRs surviving from a single ancestor become vanishingly small over just a few generations. As DNATribes honestly states your results only indicate where in the world your blend of STRs are currently most common.

    So if we take your example of a dutch sailor who married a japanese woman say 8 generations ago or 240 years, the chances for a dutch descendant to have a typically japanese marker is 0.5*0.5*0.5*0.5*0.5*0.5*0.5*0.5=0.004 or 4 chances in 1,000.

    The DNATribes results should be strongest for people who have parents from one specific ethnic community. If your parents are from widely diverging ethnic communities, your results could look rather alien and be entirely different from that of your siblings.



    John
    My parents are not from widely diverging ethnic communities. They have the same ethnic background, British, with the exception of my fathers side also having Czech,& Dutch. And, according to AncestryByDna, Native American.

    Why then, would DNATRIBES match me to 254 out of 567?
    Last edited by rainbow; 14 June 2007, 04:57 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Johnserrat
    replied
    Rainbow:

    The following are quotes from DNATribes:

    "DNA Tribes Genetic Ancestry Analysis is a service that uses genetic material inherited from both maternal and paternal ancestors to measure your genetic connections to individual ethnic groups and major world regions. Your top ranked results indicate places where your blend of ancestry is most frequent and where your genetic ancestors left the strongest traces."

    "DNA Tribes unique autosomal analysis complements other types of genetic tests, by using DNA passed down equally from male and female ancestors. The autosomal STRs tested by DNA Tribes are passed down from both male and female and both lineal and non-lineal ancestors. Each person inherits a unique combination of these autosomal STRs. DNA Tribes identifies the individual ethnic groups and world regions where a person's total combination of ancestry is most frequent or common."

    As your chances of inheriting each autosomal STR are 50/50 between each parent, the odds of any STRs surviving from a single ancestor become vanishingly small over just a few generations. As DNATribes honestly states your results only indicate where in the world your blend of STRs are currently most common.

    So if we take your example of a dutch sailor who married a japanese woman say 8 generations ago or 240 years, the chances for a dutch descendant to have a typically japanese marker is 0.5*0.5*0.5*0.5*0.5*0.5*0.5*0.5=0.004 or 4 chances in 1,000.

    The DNATribes results should be strongest for people who have parents from one specific ethnic community. If your parents are from widely diverging ethnic communities, your results could look rather alien and be entirely different from that of your siblings.



    John

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  • rainbow
    replied
    Dutch-Japanese trade.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dejima

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  • rainbow
    replied
    It's not an elaborate scenario. There are real reasons why people get unexpected results.
    I had read that someone else who was Dutch got an unusual match to Japanese. I happen to know that the Dutch did trade with Japan centuries ago. Japan had a bad experience with European traders and shut off trade with Europe. Except with the Dutch. Japan refused to trade with anyone but the Dutch. Trade was restricted. The Dutch were allowed to come into Japan only twice a year.
    And falconry came into England in the 500s, via the Chinese.

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  • rainbow
    replied
    Originally posted by Johnserrat
    The other explanation is that for many people the autosomal results do not accurately reflect their ancestry. Perhaps as more people are tested, this will change in the future. Too many people are trying to find elaborate ways to "explain" their results given their known heritage.

    John
    The test from DNATRIBES is for DEEP ancestry, not just the last 500 years, as with AncestryByDna.

    Either the tests are wrong, or they are right. If they are right, then peoples ideas of what they are are wrong. If everyone stood in just one place for 30,000 years, the world wouldn't have been populated.

    I also match the 'Uyghur II' group from Xinxiang, China. I think the Silk Road went past there, didn't it?

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  • Johnserrat
    replied
    Originally posted by rainbow
    My report matches me to Australian Aborigines also. And Maori & West Polynesian, in the Pacific Ocean. And Canary Islands, & Cape Verde Islands in the Atlantic Ocean.
    Since this test includes all genes from many thousands of years, this must be from ancient trade/travel. The Zulu must have been picked up by traveling Ancient Greeks or Romans or Phoenicians, who sailed around Cape Hope, Africa.
    The other explanation is that for many people the autosomal results do not accurately reflect their ancestry. Perhaps as more people are tested, this will change in the future. Too many people are trying to find elaborate ways to "explain" their results given their known heritage.

    John

    Leave a comment:


  • rainbow
    replied
    Originally posted by Kaiser
    rainbow: The coastal areas of Pakistan have a small African population known as 'sheedis', the mostly the progeny of slaves/concubines brought in by Omani rulers under whose suzerainty lay a Pakistani District of Gwadar from early 19th century till 1957. The y-DNA Haplogroup amongst the 'Sheedis' is E3 while the mtDNA Haplogroup of these Africans is L3 and the particular haplotypes are found mainly in Mozambique. So are we talking of a Portuguese-Mozambiquan-Pakistani linkage in your genes?
    From early 19th century? Not possible in my case.
    If the test is from my swabs, and is correct, then the only explanation is that they're picking up very ancient genes, and I must be descended from people who traveled all over the place. I have a lot of unusual matches from places far apart from each other.
    I had read that most people of the British Isles get Portugal (Iberian) as their top match because they came from the Iberian Peninsula thousands of years ago. To me, the Portugal match just represents British.

    I was very surprised to see my chart from DNATRIBES, with no dots in the Americas, and two yellow dots in Mozambique, Africa.
    Last edited by rainbow; 14 June 2007, 03:46 PM.

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  • rainbow
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Honeychuck
    Earlier versions of DNATribes gave me top matches with South Asian Indians. Now those matches have all but disappeared, and my top matches are with Australian Aborigines.

    If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.

    The European matches of my DNATribes result look valid. I'm only paying attention to those.

    DNATribes is a really interesting test, but it can be hard to interpret.

    Jim
    My report matches me to Australian Aborigines also. And Maori & West Polynesian, in the Pacific Ocean. And Canary Islands, & Cape Verde Islands in the Atlantic Ocean.
    Since this test includes all genes from many thousands of years, this must be from ancient trade/travel. The Zulu must have been picked up by traveling Ancient Greeks or Romans or Phoenicians, who sailed around Cape Hope, Africa.
    Last edited by rainbow; 14 June 2007, 03:29 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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