ABDNA and Phenotype...

[burto]

Burto- although the photo is very small your Mom could very much have a Native heritage. She reminds me a little of June Carter Cash http://junecartercash.com/ who likely had a native background.

Hi,
Thanks for that. I think maybe a GGrandparent or maybe a Grandparent on her US father's side was something other than Anglo-American.
I know the picture is small but I think maybe Hispanic or mediterranean?

[dnaval]

Could someone tell me where to find this...

I am looking for a previous link , that showed how to measure
head etc to find ethnic simularities.
Can someone tell me where this is on the forum?
I would be greatful.

TY,

Val

[rainbow]

I am looking for a previous link , that showed how to measure
head etc to find ethnic simularities.
Can someone tell me where this is on the forum?
I would be greatful.

TY,

Val

Originally Posted by Jim Honeychuck
At http://dienekes.angeltowns.net/calc/rac/indexf.html there is a tool by which you can anonymously fill in measurements of your head and compare them with an old photographic database of supposed European types.

I don't necessarily endorse those findings. But in my case, the geographical correlation between my DNA Tribes results and the photographic database (male version http://dienekes.angeltowns.net/calc/rac/ ) was remarkable.

Jim

I don't recommend it.

[tomcat]

...
Who knows, maybe there is Jewish ancestry too?

Pedigreed Jews have been known to pull a Native American percentage on AbDNA and some of the CODIS alleles that are strongly incident among Native Americans are also strongly incident among Jews.

[tomcat]

...
He would probably have no interest in getting his dna tested except to see if he may be part Jewish. His wife is half Jewish (Russian).
...
I feel he does sense that there is 'something there' that he doesn't know about and that is why he is open to suggestion.
...

If he, your father, is open to suggestion why not suggest a DNA test?

[Jodee]

I have an old picture - I'm wondering if someone would please take a look and see what you think about possible family origins.

The picture's a bit startling - and its been haunting me here - its an old photo of my gr-gr-grandfather. He's looking pretty hard-working. He was a lime burner, living above Easton, PA in Northampton County.

The reason I'm wondering is because though I live just a hop, skip and jump from where he lived, i can't seem to determine his family background. As far as I know there wasn't any real church affiliation to try and determine background that way. I think his mom was PA German. His wife (my gr-gr-grandmother) was Scotch Irish and PA German. I've just assumed he's of the same background, but my father told me he was part Native American. A couple distant cousins have the same story. Civil War records describe him as dark complexion, brown hair, gray eyes, 5'8. He had 16 children and their pictures look alike - nothing stands out as "different looking" as in his picture - or maybe I'm just staring at the picture too long

I'm open to suggestions! Thank you.

Jodee

[dnaval]

Very exotic look to his face...

I would say Native but I sense something else,Possibly French,Spanish.
The look on his face seems he knows something, he is not telling.

Val

I have an old picture - I'm wondering if someone would please take a look and see what you think about possible family origins.

The picture's a bit startling - and its been haunting me here - its an old photo of my gr-gr-grandfather. He's looking pretty hard-working. He was a lime burner, living above Easton, PA in Northampton County.

The reason I'm wondering is because though I live just a hop, skip and jump from where he lived, i can't seem to determine his family background. As far as I know there wasn't any real church affiliation to try and determine background that way. I think his mom was PA German. His wife (my gr-gr-grandmother) was Scotch Irish and PA German. I've just assumed he's of the same background, but my father told me he was part Native American. A couple distant cousins have the same story. Civil War records describe him as dark complexion, brown hair, gray eyes, 5'8. He had 16 children and their pictures look alike - nothing stands out as "different looking" as in his picture - or maybe I'm just staring at the picture too long

I'm open to suggestions! Thank you.

Jodee

[tomcat]

Your tintype

I have an old picture - I'm wondering if someone would please take a look and see what you think about possible family origins. ...

We think Scots-Irish about the muzzle, lips and chin. The high cheek bones and their breadth across the face is not inconsistent with Scots-Irish although he is rather flattish, almost sunken, on that plane. His nose came from someone else, could be German. His stiff black hair could be evidence of Native American ancestry and, possibly, the fact that his cheek bone is also prominent on the side of his face all the way back to his ear.

It is an arresting image. It seems his left eye is crossed to the right, would not say he was cross-eyed, maybe a lazy eye, wandering eye, paralysis of one of the muscles controlling orientation of the eye.

He looks 'Lincolnesque' but Lincoln's ancestry may be no guide as it remains controversial.

[Jodee]

I would say Native but I sense something else,Possibly French,Spanish.
The look on his face seems he knows something, he is not telling.

Val

Thanks Val for your thoughts on the picture.

Ha! - he does look like he knows something - sure wish he would tell me

Jodee

[Jodee]

We think Scots-Irish about the muzzle, lips and chin. The high cheek bones and their breadth across the face is not inconsistent with Scots-Irish although he is rather flattish, almost sunken, on that plane. His nose came from someone else, could be German. His stiff black hair could be evidence of Native American ancestry and, possibly, the fact that his cheek bone is also prominent on the side of his face all the way back to his ear.

It is an arresting image. It seems his left eye is crossed to the right, would not say he was cross-eyed, maybe a lazy eye, wandering eye, paralysis of one of the muscles controlling orientation of the eye.

He looks 'Lincolnesque' but Lincoln's ancestry may be no guide as it remains controversial.

Thanks Tom for your input. Guess he is just a conglomerate of a sort -

Maybe his eyes are funny from having to sit still so long for the camera. I've been staring at that picture so long - my eyes are funny

I found this picture of a son taken around the same time - he appears to have those defined cheek bones. He's wearing a hat so it’s a bit harder to see the shape of his face. In looking at the Smith boys reunion pictures from years later, most of them have those cheek bones. His hair does look very coarse - hmmmm i'm going to have to go back and look at his children's hair...... wish i had it for a test sample ;-)

Thank you again -
Jodee

[tomcat]

...

I found this picture of a son taken around the same time ...

And what was the ancestry of the mother of this boy? He looks way more Native than his father.

[rainbow]

In the first picture I think he looks like David Bowie, with a mustache.
You can go to Walgreens and have the photo colorized.


Here is a pic of me when I was 6.
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9981/meage6xr5.png

[dnaval]

Characteristics of your photo

I know that there are some characteristics of Native Americans,
Such as second toe longer than big toe,shovel teeth(which I have
both of) You may be able to find more info at the library or anthropology
websites.

Hope this helps,

Val

Thanks Tom for your input. Guess he is just a conglomerate of a sort -

Maybe his eyes are funny from having to sit still so long for the camera. I've been staring at that picture so long - my eyes are funny

I found this picture of a son taken around the same time - he appears to have those defined cheek bones. He's wearing a hat so it’s a bit harder to see the shape of his face. In looking at the Smith boys reunion pictures from years later, most of them have those cheek bones. His hair does look very coarse - hmmmm i'm going to have to go back and look at his children's hair...... wish i had it for a test sample ;-)

Thank you again -
Jodee

[Jodee]

And what was the ancestry of the mother of this boy? He looks way more Native than his father.

Thanks Tom - Well I'm not exactly sure but it appears her father was Scots-Irish and her mother PA German. Not to clog the place up with my photos here.... i do have a picture of her. Its from when she was older and I'm thinking she doesn't look Native American to me, but who knows? i'll post it here. Boy she's looking stern. One thing I do know about her is that she was a local "healer". My grandmother learned how to collect and use roots and herbs from her. She used to tell me stories about it.

But thats a thought Tom - the Native American line could be through her family. i know so little about them.

Jodee

PS - her pin says "darling"

[tomcat]

Thanks Tom - Well I'm not exactly sure but it appears her father was Scots-Irish and her mother PA German. Not to clog the place up with my photos here.... i do have a picture of her. Its from when she was older and I'm thinking she doesn't look Native American to me, but who knows? i'll post it here. Boy she's looking stern. One thing I do know about her is that she was a local "healer". My grandmother learned how to collect and use roots and herbs from her. She used to tell me stories about it.

But thats a thought Tom - the Native American line could be through her family. i know so little about them.

Jodee

PS - her pin says "darling"

The son got his mother's mouth. If you hold a bit of paper over one side of her face and then the other, her right half seems friendly and lively while her left seems somewhat dour but intensely focused. Tried the same with her husband, his right seems friendly and his left suspicious. They both either chose their 'best' side for their photographs or the photographer did.

Someone though her darling or 'darling' may have been her characteristic endearment, so she wasn't all business.

Think her nose looks Native. She is quite petite but also a presence. The PA Quakers had a tradition of tolerance and accomodation toward Native peoples. Europeans immigrants preserved herbal lore and that would have been a point of commonality with Natives.

Enjoy looking at old photos.