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ABDNA and Phenotype...

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  • tomcat
    replied
    Originally posted by Jodee
    ...

    I found this picture of a son taken around the same time ...
    And what was the ancestry of the mother of this boy? He looks way more Native than his father.
    Last edited by tomcat; 14 August 2007, 06:12 PM.

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  • Jodee
    replied
    Originally posted by tomcat
    We think Scots-Irish about the muzzle, lips and chin. The high cheek bones and their breadth across the face is not inconsistent with Scots-Irish although he is rather flattish, almost sunken, on that plane. His nose came from someone else, could be German. His stiff black hair could be evidence of Native American ancestry and, possibly, the fact that his cheek bone is also prominent on the side of his face all the way back to his ear.

    It is an arresting image. It seems his left eye is crossed to the right, would not say he was cross-eyed, maybe a lazy eye, wandering eye, paralysis of one of the muscles controlling orientation of the eye.

    He looks 'Lincolnesque' but Lincoln's ancestry may be no guide as it remains controversial.
    Thanks Tom for your input. Guess he is just a conglomerate of a sort -

    Maybe his eyes are funny from having to sit still so long for the camera. I've been staring at that picture so long - my eyes are funny

    I found this picture of a son taken around the same time - he appears to have those defined cheek bones. He's wearing a hat so itÂ’s a bit harder to see the shape of his face. In looking at the Smith boys reunion pictures from years later, most of them have those cheek bones. His hair does look very coarse - hmmmm i'm going to have to go back and look at his children's hair...... wish i had it for a test sample ;-)

    Thank you again -
    Jodee
    Attached Files

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  • Jodee
    replied
    Originally posted by dnaval
    I would say Native but I sense something else,Possibly French,Spanish.
    The look on his face seems he knows something, he is not telling.

    Val
    Thanks Val for your thoughts on the picture.

    Ha! - he does look like he knows something - sure wish he would tell me

    Jodee

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  • tomcat
    replied
    Your tintype

    Originally posted by Jodee
    I have an old picture - I'm wondering if someone would please take a look and see what you think about possible family origins. ...
    We think Scots-Irish about the muzzle, lips and chin. The high cheek bones and their breadth across the face is not inconsistent with Scots-Irish although he is rather flattish, almost sunken, on that plane. His nose came from someone else, could be German. His stiff black hair could be evidence of Native American ancestry and, possibly, the fact that his cheek bone is also prominent on the side of his face all the way back to his ear.

    It is an arresting image. It seems his left eye is crossed to the right, would not say he was cross-eyed, maybe a lazy eye, wandering eye, paralysis of one of the muscles controlling orientation of the eye.

    He looks 'Lincolnesque' but Lincoln's ancestry may be no guide as it remains controversial.
    Last edited by tomcat; 14 August 2007, 03:30 PM.

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  • dnaval
    Guest replied
    Very exotic look to his face...

    I would say Native but I sense something else,Possibly French,Spanish.
    The look on his face seems he knows something, he is not telling.

    Val


    Originally posted by Jodee
    I have an old picture - I'm wondering if someone would please take a look and see what you think about possible family origins.

    The picture's a bit startling - and its been haunting me here - its an old photo of my gr-gr-grandfather. He's looking pretty hard-working. He was a lime burner, living above Easton, PA in Northampton County.

    The reason I'm wondering is because though I live just a hop, skip and jump from where he lived, i can't seem to determine his family background. As far as I know there wasn't any real church affiliation to try and determine background that way. I think his mom was PA German. His wife (my gr-gr-grandmother) was Scotch Irish and PA German. I've just assumed he's of the same background, but my father told me he was part Native American. A couple distant cousins have the same story. Civil War records describe him as dark complexion, brown hair, gray eyes, 5'8. He had 16 children and their pictures look alike - nothing stands out as "different looking" as in his picture - or maybe I'm just staring at the picture too long

    I'm open to suggestions! Thank you.

    Jodee

    Leave a comment:


  • Jodee
    replied
    I have an old picture - I'm wondering if someone would please take a look and see what you think about possible family origins.

    The picture's a bit startling - and its been haunting me here - its an old photo of my gr-gr-grandfather. He's looking pretty hard-working. He was a lime burner, living above Easton, PA in Northampton County.

    The reason I'm wondering is because though I live just a hop, skip and jump from where he lived, i can't seem to determine his family background. As far as I know there wasn't any real church affiliation to try and determine background that way. I think his mom was PA German. His wife (my gr-gr-grandmother) was Scotch Irish and PA German. I've just assumed he's of the same background, but my father told me he was part Native American. A couple distant cousins have the same story. Civil War records describe him as dark complexion, brown hair, gray eyes, 5'8. He had 16 children and their pictures look alike - nothing stands out as "different looking" as in his picture - or maybe I'm just staring at the picture too long

    I'm open to suggestions! Thank you.

    Jodee
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • tomcat
    replied
    Originally posted by rainbow
    ...
    He would probably have no interest in getting his dna tested except to see if he may be part Jewish. His wife is half Jewish (Russian).
    ...
    I feel he does sense that there is 'something there' that he doesn't know about and that is why he is open to suggestion.
    ...
    If he, your father, is open to suggestion why not suggest a DNA test?

    Leave a comment:


  • tomcat
    replied
    Originally posted by rainbow
    ...
    Who knows, maybe there is Jewish ancestry too?
    Pedigreed Jews have been known to pull a Native American percentage on AbDNA and some of the CODIS alleles that are strongly incident among Native Americans are also strongly incident among Jews.

    Leave a comment:


  • rainbow
    replied
    Originally posted by dnaval
    I am looking for a previous link , that showed how to measure
    head etc to find ethnic simularities.
    Can someone tell me where this is on the forum?
    I would be greatful.

    TY,

    Val

    Originally Posted by Jim Honeychuck
    At http://dienekes.angeltowns.net/calc/rac/indexf.html there is a tool by which you can anonymously fill in measurements of your head and compare them with an old photographic database of supposed European types.

    I don't necessarily endorse those findings. But in my case, the geographical correlation between my DNA Tribes results and the photographic database (male version http://dienekes.angeltowns.net/calc/rac/ ) was remarkable.

    Jim
    I don't recommend it.

    Leave a comment:


  • dnaval
    Guest replied
    Could someone tell me where to find this...

    I am looking for a previous link , that showed how to measure
    head etc to find ethnic simularities.
    Can someone tell me where this is on the forum?
    I would be greatful.

    TY,

    Val

    Leave a comment:


  • burto
    replied
    Originally posted by Pleroma
    Burto- although the photo is very small your Mom could very much have a Native heritage. She reminds me a little of June Carter Cash http://junecartercash.com/ who likely had a native background.
    Hi,
    Thanks for that. I think maybe a GGrandparent or maybe a Grandparent on her US father's side was something other than Anglo-American.
    I know the picture is small but I think maybe Hispanic or mediterranean?

    Leave a comment:


  • burto
    replied
    Originally posted by rainbow
    Your mom looks a lot like my mom. I think your mom looks English.

    My mom also has dark eyes & dark hair and delicate facial features that she gets from her mother. They look similar to Paul McCartney.
    My mom is English (Norman) on her mothers side and Scottish/Welsh/English(Jute) on her fathers side. But I found that both sides had some Swiss (her mothers side had French-Swiss, her fathers side had German-Swiss).
    Even the Norman side has some distant Scottish (Stewart), etc.

    I've seen similar-looking northern Italian and French people. Maybe your mom is also part Swiss?
    My Mum is half English, half unknown American. She has often had people here in England say "where are you from?" and I must say she doesn't look like people of pure English heritage here!
    She looks nothing like her mother, who I would say looks English based on face shape, cheek bones, jawline and complexion.
    I've traced her maternal family history back to the 1500's and our ancestors were all English.
    Her father was described as "Italian looking" but I wonder if AbDNA's asian results actually relate to her looks?
    Last edited by burto; 12 August 2007, 02:54 PM.

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  • rainbow
    replied
    Originally posted by Pleroma
    Rainbow- your dad looks very Native American.
    He had no part in raising me and we are estranged. In the few times I've been around him I can tell you that he says and staunchly believes he is Czech, English, and Dutch. I took him to court for a paternity (HLA?) test, years ago.
    He hangs out with and plays chess with NY Russian Jews who tell him they think he is Jewish. He would probably have no interest in getting his dna tested except to see if he may be part Jewish. His wife is half Jewish (Russian).
    He would never in a gazillion years think there is Native American on his side, because his mother is from an old New Jersey Protestant Dutch-English family. His father was from a Roman Catholic family, and left Catholic church and married my grandmother.
    I wish I had his blood sample from the court lab, Roche, to test his ABD & dnatribes, but I don't.

    Oh to see the look on his face if he were to find out he is part Native American and not Jewish.

    I feel he does sense that there is 'something there' that he doesn't know about and that is why he is open to suggestion.

    I've always felt that there is 'something else' in my blood.

    Who knows, maybe there is Jewish ancestry too?
    Last edited by rainbow; 12 August 2007, 02:08 PM.

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  • rainbow
    replied
    Originally posted by burto
    Will do, but any thoughts on her father's origins based on her and her results?
    She looks nothing like her Mum.
    Your mom looks a lot like my mom. I think your mom looks English.

    My mom also has dark eyes & dark hair and delicate facial features that she gets from her mother. They look similar to Paul McCartney.
    My mom is English (Norman) on her mothers side and Scottish/Welsh/English(Jute) on her fathers side. But I found that both sides had some Swiss (her mothers side had French-Swiss, her fathers side had German-Swiss).
    Even the Norman side has some distant Scottish (Stewart), etc.

    I've seen similar-looking northern Italian and French people. Maybe your mom is also part Swiss?
    Last edited by rainbow; 12 August 2007, 01:23 PM.

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  • Pleroma
    replied
    Trying to guess the origin of the phenotype is a little like trying to win real money at the casino but I'll put in my two cents worth anyway.

    Cinda- you look very Eastern European----perhaps even Baltic. The shape of your face and eyes says to me Baltic Sea.

    Rainbow- your dad looks very Native American.

    Burto- although the photo is very small your Mom could very much have a Native heritage. She reminds me a little of June Carter Cash http://junecartercash.com/ who likely had a native background.

    dnaval- you look very British Ilses to me. You remind me a little of this actress from Coronation Street (a British soap opera) http://tim-peters.fotopic.net/p27232897.html

    Leave a comment:

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