North Italy

[F.E.C.]

I have just started the North Italy dna project.

We welcome both y-dna and mt-dna results from people of northern Italian descent.

[F.E.C.]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that only these regions are considered North Italy: Valle d'Aosta, Piemonte, Liguria, Emilia-Romagna, Lombardia, Trentino-Alto Adige, Veneto, Friuli-Venezia Giulia.

[cacio]

Francesco:

great idea. Too bad I am just a couple miles south (but north of the Gothic line! and I was born in piedmont).

More seriously, this will be quite useful. Most papers tend to be skewed towards the south. Also, even when they do have northern samples, it is sometimes not clear whether (as I believe) limit themselves to people with known northern ancestry or include also recent migrants from the south. And while I have seen some Y data, I can think of little mtdna data.

If this project is joined by many Italian americans, we may be skewed towards Veneto. but at least we'll know. I'm curious to see how overwhelmingly R1b the north will be.

cacio

[F.E.C.]

Thank you

You know, it's been a tough decision. Personally, I think northern Tuscany is historically very close to northern Italy and the same goes for the northern provinces of Marche. On the other hand, I was afraid that including such areas might have been misleading for the non-Italian members of the group.

You have perfectly understood the reason why I have started the project. I think you make a good point when you predict that probably the data will be skewed towards the North-East, however a project specifically addressed to northern Italians could still be useful to isolate the y-dna and mt-dna results from these regions in all their complexity.

[argiedude]

You know, it's been a tough decision. Personally, I think northern Tuscany is historically very close to northern Italy

According to this map, northern Tuscany is clearly a part of north Italy, but you're right, you have to draw the line through some clearly identifiable border. If I had picked the provinces I would have chosen the same ones you did, and had the same regrets about Tuscany and Marche as you did.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/europe/italy_pop_1972.jpg

[F.E.C.]

I would have loved to include Umbria, too, because that is where my paternal line is from

[cacio]

The borders are always arbitrary, but it seems liguria/tuscany and romagna/marche is a natural one, because more or less it follows the Appennines. As for Northern Tuscany - if we look at the dialects spoken, it is definitely Tuscan, not northern Italian, whereas the Ligurian dialect is solidly northern Italian. The referenced map seems to imply a continuum from Florence to Genova which is simply not there. Once you get to the coast from Florence, there are mountains, and a clear separation.

Only in the northernmost valley of Tuscany, called Lunigiana, the dialect is more northern Italian, the limit probably being around the cities of Carrara and Massa (which is where my family comes from). I don't know much about Romagna/Marche, may be the situation is more fluid there.

Besides, Tuscany seems quite complicated, and controversial because of the Etruscan studies. My prior is that the mtdna has lots of mediterranean signs, but the Y is solidly R1b. I would bet marche is the same. At least, so far the Etruscan group hasn't said much.

cacio

[vineviz]

I have just started the North Italy dna project.

We welcome both y-dna and mt-dna results from people of northern Italian descent.

I wish you the best of luck! I know the project will be in great hands.

Just be sure to remind your members that they can belong to your group AND the Italy DNA Project. We would love more northern Italians ourselves.

Vince

[F.E.C.]

Thank you for the kind words, Vince. I will sure remember them they can join the Italy DNA Project whenever they haven't done it yet.

[janmarbol]

both parents from northern italy

my mito dna haplogroup is t5
126c, 153a, 294t, 296t, 519c

i currently live in the US where i was born, but my great grandparents went to Argentina in the early 1800's or before, (same time migration took place from italy to the us) from a place called rivarolo canavese (torino area) on father's side and vicenza (venice) mother's side.

ciao...

janet

[F.E.C.]

my mito dna haplogroup is t5
126c, 153a, 294t, 296t, 519c

i currently live in the US where i was born, but my great grandparents went to Argentina in the early 1800's or before, (same time migration took place from italy to the us) from a place called rivarolo canavese (torino area) on father's side and vicenza (venice) mother's side.

ciao...

janet

Hello Janet, I would be happy to welcome you in our group.

If you want to join the North Italy project go to your FTDNA personal page and click on the blue button labelled "Join" at the top of the page. This sends you to a page where you can find various projects. Scroll down to the section titled "DUAL GEOGRAPHICAL PROJECTS" and click on the letter "N." This sends you to a page where you will find a link labelled "North Italy" - click on that and finally you will be on the page where you can click on the "Join" button and become a member of the North Italy Project.

We already have a T5 member whose most distant known female ancestor, curiously, was from the same part of Piemonte your great grandfather was.