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Jennings Surprised by German RAO & J2 SNP

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  • Jennings Surprised by German RAO & J2 SNP

    My Recent Ancestral Origins results for 12 markers showed an exact match for only the country of Germany with 5351 entries so far, and a “Your Matches” value of 1. After upgrading to 37 markers, my RAO page now contains a 25 Marker section showing only one-step mutations in Germany (2116), with a “Your Matches” value of 1, and below that, the 37 Marker section contains only two-step mutations in Germany (1419) with a “Your Matches” value of 1.

    My surname is Jennings. My late father thought he had traced our line back to two Jennings brothers from England. I was expecting an exact match in England, the United Kingdom or the British Isles. Back on my initial 12 marker test, the One Step Mutation section listed the countries of Italy, Poland, Russia and Sri Lanka, while England and the United Kingdom didn’t show up until down in the Two-Step Mutations section. Also, my haplotype is J2, and I would have expected it to be R1 with English ancestry. Lastly, I cannot find evidence that any Jennings family originated in Germany.

    My exact match German RAO and J2 haplotype lead me to seriously question my father’s research regarding Jennings brothers coming from England. I happened to find an article on the Internet about one fellow who emigrated to the U.S. from Germany and then changed his name from Janning to Jennings after he got here. Does anyone else think it is probable that something similar (name change or adoption) occurred in my family? According to the evidence, it appears that I’m really German or maybe German/Italian-J2 instead of British/English-R1, right?

  • #2
    Originally posted by White Socks
    ... Does anyone else think it is probable that something similar (name change or adoption) occurred in my family? According to the evidence, it appears that I’m really German or maybe German/Italian-J2 instead of British/English-R1, right?
    No. There is no reason to doubt English ancestry based on the evidence you have so far. J2 is found in England. Oppenheimer's book The Origins of the British has a J2/E3b arrow showing Neolithic migration ending in Lancashire. There are two Lancashire J2s on the FTDNA J project results page. The UK surname profiler http://www.spatial-literacy.org shows hot spots for Jennings near Manchester and in several other places in England.

    Good luck in your research.

    Jim
    Y-DNA J1 (not English)

    Comment


    • #3
      An immigrant, or more likely a child of an immigrant, might anglicize the family name. My father did. And in the last century, two wars with Germany could have provided an added impetus to do so.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the comments.

        Okay, even if J2 is found in England, my Recent Ancestral Origins exact match of Germany still goes against an authentic English heritage doesn't it? I don't get any matches at all for England or the United Kingdom until two-step mutations. Therefore, it still looks to me like a German immigrant/child anglicized their name to Jennings after moving from Germany to England and/or America.

        I really would like to know which parade to march in, hah.
        Last edited by White Socks; 26 April 2007, 03:45 PM.

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        • #5
          There's a haplogroup J project here at FTDNA, with a very knowledgeable administrator. If you join the project, she will be able to place you into one of the many groupings on the J project website, which may give you insight into your deeper ancestry.

          http://www.ftdna.com/public/Y-DNA_J

          Also, be sure that your Setup Preferences page is set to match you against FTDNA's entire database, rather than just the project(s) you are in.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by efgen
            There's a haplogroup J project here at FTDNA, with a very knowledgeable administrator.
            Thanks efgen,

            I just ordered a couple of "a la carte" tests, today, to see if I might be J2a1* or J2a1k. When those results come back, I plan to contact the adminitrator for placement in the project.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by White Socks
              I just ordered a couple of "a la carte" tests, today, to see if I might be J2a1* or J2a1k. When those results come back, I plan to contact the adminitrator for placement in the project.
              There's no need to wait for your results before joining, though it's up to you. If Bonnie can't classify you with your existing markers, then she'll just put you in the J2 unclassified section until your results are in. Takes just a few seconds to join... click the "request to join this project" link at the top left of the project website, log in to your account, then just click the Join button below the description, and you'll be in

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              • #8
                Originally posted by White Socks
                Thanks for the comments.

                Okay, even if J2 is found in England, my Recent Ancestral Origins exact match of Germany still goes against an authentic English heritage doesn't it? I don't get any matches at all for England or the United Kingdom until two-step mutations. Therefore, it still looks to me like a German immigrant/child anglicized their name to Jennings after moving from Germany to England and/or America.

                I really would like to know which parade to march in, hah.
                J2 advanced on two fronts, one through the Mediterranean to the Iberian Peninsula and then up to Britain, and of course the better known path up the Danube to Germany. I don't think anyone has found the signature of one path versus the other.

                12/12 is a tenuous match. Ideally you would get many such matches before moving on to more markers.

                Jim

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by White Socks
                  My Recent Ancestral Origins results for 12 markers showed an exact match for only the country of Germany with 5351 entries so far, and a “Your Matches” value of 1. After upgrading to 37 markers, my RAO page now contains a 25 Marker section showing only one-step mutations in Germany (2116), with a “Your Matches” value of 1, and below that, the 37 Marker section contains only two-step mutations in Germany (1419) with a “Your Matches” value of 1.
                  By the way, this page simply shows that you have ONE near-match in the entire FTDNA database, and he reported that his origins were in Germany. So you really don't have enough matches to make any firm conclusions.

                  Do you have only this one match on your Y-DNA Matches page also?

                  My surname is Jennings. My late father thought he had traced our line back to two Jennings brothers from England. My exact match German RAO and J2 haplotype lead me to seriously question my father’s research regarding Jennings brothers coming from England.
                  I would try to find a living direct male descendant of the other brother and see if he would be willing to take the DNA test to confirm that you're both from the same Y-DNA line. If you match, then the paper trail is good, an there's no reason to question your father's research. Now if you don't match, then you have your work cut out for you in figuring out why. DNA testing has drawn out many cases of undocumented adoptions and various other unexpected scenarios that lead to a mismatch between the paper trail and DNA.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by efgen
                    By the way, this page simply shows that you have ONE near-match in the entire FTDNA database, and he reported that his origins were in Germany. So you really don't have enough matches to make any firm conclusions.

                    Do you have only this one match on your Y-DNA Matches page also?



                    I would try to find a living direct male descendant of the other brother and see if he would be willing to take the DNA test to confirm that you're both from the same Y-DNA line. If you match, then the paper trail is good, an there's no reason to question your father's research. Now if you don't match, then you have your work cut out for you in figuring out why. DNA testing has drawn out many cases of undocumented adoptions and various other unexpected scenarios that lead to a mismatch between the paper trail and DNA.

                    Good points here efgen.

                    All of my closest 12/12 matches have origins in either the British Isles or France. My paternal line is from Calabria Southern Italy and to me that does not mean that my ancestor came from Britian originally. If anything the men who I match had ancestors who came from Italy originally most likely with the Romans.

                    White Socks you may even be a descendant of a Roman legionaire yourself!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by efgen
                      By the way, this page simply shows that you have ONE near-match in the entire FTDNA database, and he reported that his origins were in Germany. So you really don't have enough matches to make any firm conclusions. Do you have only this one match on your Y-DNA Matches page also?
                      I was going by my Recent Ancestral Origins page:

                      12 Marker Y-DNA Matches
                      Exact Matches
                      Germany (5354) - Your Matches 1

                      One Step Mutations
                      Italy (1385) - Your Matches 1
                      Poland (1348) - Your Matches 1
                      Russia (1956) - Your Matches 2
                      Sri Lanka (136) - Your Matches 1

                      Now I understand. Out of 5354 men who identify their origin as Germany, only ONE matched with me with 12 markers.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by J Man
                        White Socks you may even be a descendant of a Roman legionaire yourself!
                        I wonder if that might be Roman or Greco-Roman. Just in case I turn out to be J2a1*, I wanted to get your learned opinion regarding the Dienekes' Anthropology Blog where it is suggested that J2a1 may have originated in Greece.

                        Thanks

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by White Socks
                          I wonder if that might be Roman or Greco-Roman. Just in case I turn out to be J2a1*, I wanted to get your learned opinion regarding the Dienekes' Anthropology Blog where it is suggested that J2a1 may have originated in Greece.

                          Thanks

                          Yes I remember reading about Dienekes throy on his blog about J2a1 originating in Greece. I have spoken with others about it including Bonnie Shrack and from what I have read it does not really seem to me very likely that our haplogroup originated there. Most likely our haplogroup J2a1* originated in Anatolia or another region in the Northern Fertile Crescent.

                          Our haplogroup then spread out from the Near East or Anatolia during the Neolithic period. As you most likely know our own direct ancestors are credited by geneticists as being the first to people to start farming, which I think is pretty cool

                          Just wondering have you had the deep SNP tests done by FTDNA at all yet?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by J Man
                            Just wondering have you had the deep SNP tests done by FTDNA at all yet?
                            I've only had the SNP Deep Haplogroup test with the following results:

                            M172+ M304+ M102- M12- M137- M158- M163- M166- M205- M267- M280- M339- M365- M367- M368- M369- M390- M47- M62- M67- M68- M92- M99-

                            Are there other deep SNP tests available, which you would recommend? (besides the DYS413 and DYS445 I ordred, today).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by White Socks
                              I've only had the SNP Deep Haplogroup test with the following results:

                              M172+ M304+ M102- M12- M137- M158- M163- M166- M205- M267- M280- M339- M365- M367- M368- M369- M390- M47- M62- M67- M68- M92- M99-

                              Are there other deep SNP tests available, which you would recommend? (besides the DYS413 and DYS445 I ordred, today).

                              Those are the same results that I got from the Deep SNP test.

                              Right now all you can really test is DYS413 and DYS445. There are no other SNPs left or worth testing right now.

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