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What exactly is typical for a Caucasian?!

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Maria_W
    Well, geez, don't that just complicate things then if you can't even say column 1 X might be my mother and column 2 X my dad. Your saying they are mixed between the 2 columes. Column 1 and 2 has both parents mixed. Are they equally mixed? Or could 1 column have more my dads with a few of my moms? And the same for my moms in column and a few of my dads?
    Is Mid-East,and Asia European? Looks like you might be 47% European. But a whole lot of Europeans appear to be 50-60% European. It's just that we're not informed about it. I guess the modern Whites don't know anything about all those foreign relatives of theirs. It would be cool if in the future they'd offer accreditable courses based on your actual DNA makeup so all who are willing could get educated about the ancestry they knew nothing about.I for one would like to take the classes
    Last edited by Jambalaia32; 23 April 2007, 09:59 AM.


    • #47
      Timeline for Autosomal

      Are these results recent or are they from a billion years ago? Also how do you know you weren't kidnapped or stolen or cheated by all these "ancestors", and by modern local peoples and governments,that always seem to misappropiate people and threaten them into handing over or participating? I mean who's to say you're on good terms with these ancestors and modern day folks who seek your stuff by association?? (I live here too,so your Ass is MINE,and stuff like that????-I mean if they aren't related,and in true authority).


      • #48
        Originally posted by tomcat
        One of the two alleles at each marker came from your mother and the other from your father.

        You did not receive more alleles from one or the other.
        Thank you for answering my question. I was wondering about that because when i put my dnatribes markers thru the Canadian ProfilerPlus I was getting American Indian results for both alleles, if I was interpreting correctly. I was wondering if that meant my mom also had some NA that didn't show up in her ABD.

        Someone put my info thru omnipop this week, and the results were very different, and said if it was ABD it would read:
        native american 36%
        black 20%
        jewish 12%
        east asian 12%
        india 12%
        european 04%
        hispanic 04%
        I'm very confused about it. four percent european?!?

        Which one is reliable, AncestryByDna or Omnipop? Or are they both reliable?
        If AncestryByDna is for the last 200-300 years, is Omnipop for the last ten thousand years? Or longer? Does Omnipop go way back to when each group became distinct?
        Last edited by rainbow; 26 April 2007, 07:27 PM.


        • #49
          You need to pose those questions to the 'someone' who posted the numbers - like, how did you get those numbers?


          • #50
            i posted my omnipop results in at least 3 threads, i think.
            i did pm him asking if it was for real, he said yes. he said my japan & puna(northwest argentina) matches were a very long time ago and my most recent match is serbia.


            • #51
              Originally posted by rainbow
              i posted my omnipop results in at least 3 threads, i think.
              i did pm him asking if it was for real, he said yes. he said my japan & puna(northwest argentina) matches were a very long time ago and my most recent match is serbia.
              I emailed dnatribes. Here is a quote from the response I read tonight:

              Thank you for contacting us regarding your results. I have reviewed all files and verified that the reports delivered to you by email include analysis for your own DNA sample labeled with your name and unique tracking number.

              DNA Tribes analysis differs substantially from freely available programs such as OmniPop, and we cannot warrant or interpret OmniPop results. Our own algorithms were developed for DNA Tribes by Eduardas Valaitis (Ph.D. in Statistics, Yale University). We are not familiar with the algorithms which delivered your percentages below, but they are not consistent with results identified with the DNA Tribes algorithms.

              DNA Tribes results identify a primarily Northwest European affiliation for your DNA profile, consistent with your known ancestry primarily from the British Isles.


              • #52
                Pre K ?

                Hello ; This is probably off-topic ,but , has Haplogroup K been sub-claded to Pre K 1a 10 ??? I see ( page # 3) someone listing this as their MtDNA ?? Thanks , KAT.


                • #53
                  Originally posted by tomcat
                  As I know that neither Tribes nor DNAP would answer the question about a South Asian ancestor unequivocally, I won't stick my neck out.

                  As to Natives in the British Isles, Tribes finds their 'Mestizo' in all but 6 of the European populations covered in their Global Survey of February.

                  But snooping after mysterious musician relatives that moved a lot is more
                  As for snooping -"inquring minds want to know". Besides why are they hiding? If ancestors weren't hiding ,we wouldn't be snooping, now would we?


                  • #54
                    Hi Kat,

                    I made up pre K to explain my full mtDNA results. There is no official pre K haplogroup because we do not know when the sequence mutated in pre-history. We really need more full mtDNAs to be sequenced. When we examine my HVR-I & II regions, I have the polymorphisms for K, T16224C (T16311C) T16519C and so. But when I check my entire mtDNA, I do not have what I called the K cluster of polymorphisms:


                    U8 leads to K, and it only has one polymorphism: 9698s
                    1811~r leads to the U sub clades
                    U has an interesting cluster of the following:

                    My sequence actually leads to H2 even though I have the polymorphisms for L1c1c. The number of mutations for a normal L is between 30 to 50. I have 86.
                    Complete Path
                    L0 to L1 Eve path 1 to L1c1c and path 2 to H2
                    Incomplete Path
                    Missing L0 to L1 Eve 1048 4312 6185 9755 2007 only G11914A
                    K T16224C (T16311C) T16519C missing U to K path
                    mitochondrial haplogroup L1c1cH2preK*
                    Path one:
                    L1 to L1c1c A73G C151T T152C C182T C186A A189C T195C C198T G247A A263G G316A 522delC 523delA 2395delA G3666A A3796T A3843G A5951G T6071C A7055G T7389C G8027A A9072G T10321C G10586A T11899C A12810G A13485G T13789C T14000A A14148G T14178C G14560A C14911T G16129A C16187T T16189C C16223T C16278T A16293G C16294T T16311C C16360T
                    Path two:
                    L0 to H2
                    L0 to L3 G769A T825A G1018A G2758A T2885C C3594T A4104G A7146G C7256T G7521A C8468T C8655T G10688A T10810C A13105G C13506T C13650T G15301A
                    L3 to N A8701G T9540C A10398G T10873C (G15301A)
                    N to R C12705T
                    R to preH G11719A
                    preH to HV C14766T
                    HV to H A2706G C7028T
                    H to H2 A1438G A4769G
                    Stray Markers
                    Common CRS Mutations 315insC A750G A8860G A15326G
                    Unassigned A297G T5108C G5460A C7948T C8657T C15626T A16038G T16086C
                    L1c to L1c1A297G
                    L1c1? T5108C G5460A C7948T C15626T A16038G T16086C (Niger-Congo family)
                    ???? C8657T is a rare polymorphism that is located in the ATPase gene. It changes amino acid 44 from threonine to isoleucine.
                    The notation pre K removes the ambiguity of my assignment because now I can match 16568 out of 16569 base pairs which is a very good match. As further research is done, we will find a better assignment than you cannot do that.

                    Originally posted by kat
                    Hello ; This is probably off-topic ,but , has Haplogroup K been sub-claded to Pre K 1a 10 ??? I see ( page # 3) someone listing this as their MtDNA ?? Thanks , KAT.


                    • #55

                      Just for the record, everything I posted previously in this thread was WRONG. Or I think it's wrong. I don't match Apache and all that other stuff.

                      I put my alleles thru ENSFI tonight. Thank you for the link tomcat.
                      I'm assuming I look for the highest match in the 'Actual Matching Probability' column.

                      my scores/highest matches:

                      15=Finland 0.11444545
                      17=Belgium 0.07286687

                      14=North Ireland 0.01943879
                      16=Spain 0.06415556

                      10=Italy 0.01562500
                      11=Netherlands 0.11742438

                      (D2 I'll omit because I think it means D21. I have D21S11.)

                      12=Slovenia 0.02943579
                      13=Sweden 0.15081535

                      30=Spain 0.08190140
                      31.2=Scotland/Dundee 0.01892126

                      15=Czech Republic 0.03632610
                      16=Estonia 0.03947195

                      (I don't have a D19)

                      8=Denmark 0.02146132
                      9.3 North Ireland 0.12657175

                      23=Estonia 0.04079865
                      24=Austria 0.02998810
                      Last edited by rainbow; 12 August 2007, 07:51 PM.


                      • #56
                        There are studies concerning better autosomal results than the ones used for paternity and maternity today. The CODIS markers are rather old also even though the data base is rather large. Maybe, in the next few years, people who did not preserve samples will have to re-sample again.

                        Under a variety of conditions and tests, there is a consistent and reproducible distinction between ‘‘northern’’ and ‘‘southern’’ European population groups: most individual participants with southern European ancestry (Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and Greek) have greater than 85% membership in the ‘‘southern’’ population; and most northern, western, eastern, and central Europeans have greater than 90% in the ‘‘northern’’ population group (Swedish, English, Irish, German, and Ukrainian). Both the entire set of 2,657 SNPs and a set of 400 SNPs enriched for the north–south informativeness controlled each of the loci. In contrast, 400 randomly selected SNPs showed substantial variation in the ability to account for the European population structure in this study. The clear clustering of participants of northern compared to southern European ancestry was consistently observed in this diverse set of participants, including a wide distribution of European Americans and participants from Italy, Spain, and Sweden. Overall we did not find support for the overrepresentation of the most informative SNPs in the chromosomal positions recently shown as having signals for positive selection in the HapMap European participants. Archeological and skeletal evidence as well as studies of mitochondrial and Y chromosome haplogroups have provided evidence of upper Paleolithic, Neolithic, and more recent settlement and migrations as contributing to the origin of current European populations. Phylogenetic analyses of Y haplotypic groups are interpreted to support both separate migrations from the Middle East 4,000 to 7,000 y ago as well as a more recent ‘‘Greek’’ expansion into Italy and the Iberian peninsula occurring closer to 2,500 y ago.

                        PLoS Genetics |
                        September 2006 | Volume 2 | Issue 9 | e143
                        Neolithic R1b (390, 391, 392, 393)
                        Paleolithic Median 24, 11, 13, 13 (before 7000 y ago)
                        Neolithic Median 23, 10, 11, 13 (7000-4000 y ago)
                        76% of the families were Paleolithic
                        In more recent times the Iberians are believed to have arrived or developed in the region between the 4th millennium BC and the 3rd millennium BC, initially settling along the Mediterranean coast.
                        Celtic tribes arrived in Iberia between the 9th century BC and the 6th century BC. The Celts merged with the Iberians in central Spain, creating a local hybrid culture known as Celtiberian. In addition, a group known as the Tartessians and later Turdetanians inhabited southwestern Spain and who are believed to have developed a separate civilization of Phoenician influence.
                        As a result of Roman colonization, the majority of local languages, with the exception of Basque, stem from a type of vulgarized Latin that was spoken in Hispania (Roman Iberia), which evolved into the modern languages of the Iberian peninsula, including Castilian, which became the unifying language of Spain, and now known in many countries as Spanish.
                        The negative correlation between haplogroup R1 and haplogroups E3b, J2, and R1b
                        The negative correlation between haplogroup I and haplogroups J2 and R1b
                        The positive correlation between haplogroup J2 and haplogroup R1b
                        The absence of a substantial correlation between "Neolithic" haplogroups J2 and E3b
                        Indeed, Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b (of Paleolithic origin) is the most common haplogroup in practically all of the Iberian peninsula and western Europe, but is particularly dominant in the Basque region where it reaches frequencies of 90%, with an average frequency in Spain of 68%.
                        Summarized Percent Frequencies of R1b, R1a, I1b* (xM26), E3b1 and J2e. Oxford Journals. Retrieved on 2007-04-25.
                        a 2006 study of 681 American European individuals to conclude that there is a consistent and reproducible distinction between “northern” and “southern” European population groups, strongly suggesting the later Mediterranean (Neolithic) origin of Greeks, Portuguese, Spaniards and Italians, whereas all European populations north of the Alps and the Pyrenees (except for Ashkenazi jews) seem to fall squarely into the "Northern" population group.
                        European Population Substructure: Clustering of Northern and Southern Populations. PLoS Genetics. Retrieved on 2007-04-25.
                        This can be seen in America and Australia, which retain a considerable number of indigenous place names. These two examples are interesting, not only because massive replacement and genocide took place, but also because Australian and American English retain far more aboriginal vocabulary than native English retains Celtic. England itself retains pre-Indo-European place and river names, but few Celtic names, and the English language has literally only a handful of Celtic words. . . .
                        The means by which I could separate the R1b types in the British Isles from those on the other side of the channel is by the use of "Founder Analysis." That is, looking at the detail of their gene types (so-called STR haplotypes). These revealed 21 founding clusters, which could only have arrived direct from the Basque country. Their descendant twigs are unique to the British Isles. Furthermore I was able to date the arrival of these individual clusters using their diversity.

                        Originally posted by rainbow
                        Just for the record, everything I posted previously in this thread was WRONG. Or I think it's wrong. I don't match Apache and all that other stuff.

                        . . .


                        • #57
                          Oh yeah, I have 87 mitochondrial DNA polymorphisms not 86. I was working from memory when I wrote 86. 86 of them are well known.
                          Last edited by GregKiroKHR1bL1; 13 August 2007, 10:58 AM.


                          • #58
                            High skin concentration of the melanin called eumelanin protects vitamin B from ultra violet solar radiation damage while it can lead to a vitamin D deficiency. On average, women have slightly lighter skin than men. This is thought to help with child birth and lactation. The essential B vitamin folate is needed for the synthesis of DNA in dividing cells while vitamin D3 is necessary for calcium absorption and bone growth. Human skin has a tendency to be lighter when it is shielded from the sun by hair or by clothing. In an article published in the American Journal of Human Genetics 66: 1351-1361, there were zero differences and no divergences among the Africans for the amino acid sequences in their receptor proteins produced by the MC1R gene while among the non-African individuals there were 18 different amino acid sites in which the receptor proteins differed. Just as important, the variations in the 261 silent sites in the MC1R were similar between the Africans and non-Africans, so the basic mutation rates among the Africans and non-Africans were the same. Current Anthropology 45 (1): 105-108 followed up the study comparing humans with chimpanzee MC1R nucleotide sequences. They concluded that the proto-humans skins darken as they lost hair, and the lighter skin of Europeans and Asians were due to recent mutations due to climate changes experienced during migrations. Skin and hair texture is another story. Woolly hair and other hair texture have an unknown genetic origin as we know it in 2007. Nonetheless, the hair shaft is composed of three different types of epithelial cells: cuticle, cortical, and medullary cell (Proceedings of the Society for Experimental Biology and Medicine 223:1-7 (2000)). Its color depends on the concentrations of eumelanin, which is brown (dark brown to black), and phaeomelanin, which is red (red to yellow) in the hair follicle.

                            Harding, Rosalind M., Eugene Healy, Amanda J. Ray, Nichola S. Ellis, Niamh Flanagan, Carol Todd, Craig Dixon, Antti Sajantila, Ian J. Jackson, Mark A. Birch-Machin, and Jonathan L. Rees. 2000. "Evidence for variable selective pressures at MC1R." American Journal of Human Genetics 66: 1351-1361.
                            Rogers, Alan R., David Iltis, and Stephen Wooding. 2004. "Genetic variation at the MC1R locus and the time since loss of human body hair." Current Anthropology 45 (1): 105-108.
                            Mohr, O. L, Woolly hair, a dominant mutant character in man. J. Hered. 23: 345-352, 1932