Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

R1b1c9a Modal

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • R1b1c9a Modal

    Dear John,

    I'm so happy you wrote to me. We have a very similar
    past. My biological name is Caggegi in Italian. The
    name is an Old Norse name Kaggeg/ (Cagge - town in
    Norway). It means: Keg, Barrel, and Big...

    [Kaggegatan

    Caggegi - Kaggeg - Sweden

    Caggegi - Kaggeg - Barrel - Icelandic

    Caggegi - Kaggeg - barrel, keg, big, flashy car - Iceland/Icelandic

    Caggegi - Kaggeg - Keg - Sweden/Swedish

    North Germanic languages

    Old Norse is the Germanic language spoken by the inhabitants of Scandinavia and their overseas settlements during the Viking Age, until about 1300. It evolved from the older Proto-Norse, in the 8th century.

    North Germanic language (also called Scandinavian languages) spoken predominantly in Sweden and in parts of Finland.

    The original population of Iceland was of Nordic and Celtic origin. This is evident by literary evidence from the settlement period as well as from later scientific studies such as blood type and genetic analysis. One such genetics study has indicated that the majority of the male settlers were of Nordic origin while the majority of the women were of Celtic origin. The modern population of Iceland is often described as a "homogeneous mixture of descendants of Norse and Celts" but some history scholars reject the alleged homogeneity as a myth that fails to take into account the fact that Iceland was never completely isolated from the rest of Europe and actually has had a lot of contact with traders and fishermen from many nations through the ages.]


    I believe we are a northern Germanic people - that
    resided in Scandinavia. During the Roman period -
    Germany was Germany, Scandinavian and possibly parts
    of Russia - much larger than today - covering many
    northern countries of Northern Europe.

    Through all my readings - I believe the Normans may
    have brought our group to the UK and to Sicily. My
    Grandparents always believed to be of Norman/Germanic
    decent. I believe we come from a French/Germanic
    people that resided in Scandinavian.

    The Belgae tribe from Belgium - made their way to
    Southern England two thousand years ago. We could be
    them. They were also closely related to Normans. The
    Angles/Danes and Saxons/German state were also similar
    to us. This is why we have a majority of Anglo-Saxon
    names linked to our halpogroup.

    Thank you for message again - we made have unlocked
    more of our past today.

    Kindest Regards,
    John



    > Dear John Raciti,
    >
    > A Ysearch user has sent you a message regarding your
    > Ysearch account.
    > Your User ID: JKRAR
    > Your Last Name: R1b1c9a Modal
    >
    > We have not disclosed your email address to the
    > sender. Should you wish to
    > reply to this user, simply click Reply in your email
    > program and an email
    > will automatically be addressed to the sender. The
    > message contents
    > follow:
    >
    > Name: John Norway
    > Email:
    > Message: We have known for years about the surname
    > of Norway families
    > located in southern part of England (Cornwall). We
    > have also recently
    > learned about surname Norway originating out of
    > Germany. Is it possible
    > that the German origin surname Norway men might have
    > immigrated to United
    > States in the early to mid 1700's? Thank You --
    > John Norway, Littleton,
    > Colorado

  • #2
    R1b1c9a in all these: Frisians/Dutch, Angles/Danes, Saxons/Germans, Normans/French...

    S21 - R1b1c9* - 25% of western European males —

    found in Norway, Italy, Germany, Scotland, England,
    Ireland, Wales; includes the "Frisian" group
    (40% of men in northern Holland are S21+)

    Ethno-Ancestry

    S26 - R1b1c9a - concentrated in England

    http://dgmweb.net/genealogy/DNA/Stra...ts-HgR1b.shtml

    The Frisians had settled in Frisia from about 500 BC. According to Pliny the Younger, in Roman times, the Frisians (or, as it may be, their close neighbours, the Chauci) lived on terps, man-made islands. According to other sources, the Frisians lived along a broader expanse of the coast of the North Sea (or "Frisian Sea").

    Frisia at this time comprised the present provinces of Friesland and North Holland. A large part of the population of the present Netherlands lived in present Friesland, because of the fertile grounds there.

    Frisia is commonly divided into three sections:

    1. West Frisia in North Holland, Friesland and Groningen
    2. East Frisia in Lower Saxony
    3. North Frisia in Schleswig-Holstein and South Denmark

    The three groups of the Frisian Archipelago (the West, East and North Frisian Islands) stretch more or less correspondingly along these three sections of the German Bight coast.

    West Frisia is roughly identical with the Dutch province of Friesland, the northern part of North Holland province (the historical region of West Friesland, the westernmost portion of the traditional region of West Frisia) and also modern Groningen province, though the Western Frisian language is only spoken in Friesland proper. In West Frisia, dialects with strong Frisian substrates are spoken (Low German and Low Franconian dialect variants, respectively). In the northern province of Groningen people speak Gronings, a Saxon dialect, which also has a strong Frisian substrate.

    East Frisia includes areas located in the northwest of the German state of Lower Saxony, including the districts of Aurich, Leer, Wittmund and Friesland, as well as the district-free cities of Emden and Wilhelmshaven/Rüstringen.

    The portions of North Frisia within the German state of Schleswig-Holstein are part of the district of Nordfriesland and stretch along the coast, and including also the coastal islands from the Eider River to the border of Denmark in the north. The North Sea island of Heligoland, while not part of Nordfriesland district, is also part of traditional North Frisia.

    A half million Frisians of Friesland province in the Netherlands speak West Frisian. Several thousand more Frisian language speakers, speaking a collection North Frisian dialects often unintelligible with each other and certainly unintelligible with forms spoken beyond North Frisia, are to be found in Nordfriesland and Heligoland in Germany, while a small number of speakers of the Saterland Frisian language live in four villages of Lower Saxony in the Saterland region of Cloppenburg county, just beyond the boundaries of traditional East Frisia.

    East Anglian sources called the inhabitants of 'Frisia' Warnii instead of Frisians. In the 7th and 8th centuries (CE), the Frankish chronologies mention this area as the kingdom of the Frisians. However, these were probably not the Frisians of Roman times. This kingdom comprised the then coastal provinces of the Netherlands and the German North Sea coast. During this time, the Frisian language was spoken along the entire southern North Sea coast and, today, this region is sometimes referred to as Greater Frisia or Frisia Magna. The Franks conquered the western part in 689-719 and the eastern part at the end of the 8th century. This Frisia was partly conquered by vikings in the 840s, who were expelled between 885 and 920. It has also been suggested that the vikings did not conquer Frisia, but settled in certain parts (such as the island Wieringen) where they built simple forts and cooperated and traded with the native Frisians. One of their leaders was Godfried, Duke of Friesland.

    Comment


    • #3
      John, did you test with Ethnoancestry and come up R1b1c9/S21+?

      Comment


      • #4
        John,

        I have the same question as Francesco. Have you gotten an S21+ result from Ethnoancestry?

        Since he and I are the only two known S21+ Italian paternal lines, we are anxious to welcome others into our little fraternity. Besides giving us company, the more Italian paternal lines that test S21 and are positive, the more knowledge there will be about S21, its possible origin and geographical distribution.

        Also, since no results from companies outside FTDNA automatically show up on FTDNA project websites, I have to manually input any Ethnoancestry result on the Sicily Project website. This is what I had to do with my S21+ result.

        Mike Maddi

        Comment


        • #5
          Norman/Germanic - Viking heritage - Language and Culture in Sicily.

          Norman/Germanic - Viking heritage - Language and Culture in Sicily.

          My cousin through marriage David Neilson assumed my surname was biological ‘Raciti’. I am biological in fact a Caggegi. He told me that I needed to wait in line before I could consider my Norman/Germanic - Viking heritage.

          He believes he is of Danish heritage (through his surname - Neilson). He has brown hair and brown eyes. I personally don't see it at all. My daughter Racheal has blonde hair and blue eyes - and is most likely to be of that area.

          I have found the original form of my biological name to be of a 'North Sea Germanic language' of Norse Origin: 'Keggeg', specifically from the Ingaevones, Jastorf and Langobardic cultures that migrated into North Italy in the 6th and 7th centuries.

          History tells us that there were significant Lombard (with their Gallo-Italic idiom) settlements in Randazzo, Sicily.

          There was a Lombard Community (the last to come, with the Normans) around the church San Martino in Randazzo.

          The Langobardi tribe could have been biologically very similar to The Cimbri (Danes) and The Frisii tribes.

          The one thing I do know is that The Lombards through The Jastorf culture - were in locations in Sweden - were I find other 'Keggeg's.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:P...e_Germanic.png

          Comment


          • #6
            Gallic influences

            Gallic influences

            The Lombard influence is of particular interest. Even to the present day, a Siculo-Gallic dialect exists in the areas where the Lombard colonies were the strongest, namely Novara, Nicosia, Sperlinga, Aidone and Piazza Armerina. The Siculo-Gallic dialect did not survive in other major Lombard colonies, such as Randazzo, Bronte and Paternò (although they did influence the local sicilian vernacular). The Padanian influence was also felt on the Sicilian language itself, as follows:
            soggiru - father-in-law (from suoxer)
            cugnatu - brother-in-law (from cognau)
            figghiozzu - godson (from figlioz)
            orbu - blind (from orb)
            arricintari - to rinse (from rexentar)
            unni - where (from ond)
            *the names of the days of the week:
            *lunniri - Monday (from lunes)
            *martiri - Tuesday (from martes)
            *mèrcuri - Wednesday (from mèrcor)
            *joviri - Thursday (from juovia)
            *vènniri - Friday (from vènner)

            The origins of another Gallic influence, that of Old Provençal, had three possible sources. #As mentioned above, the number of actual Normans in Sicily (from Normandy) are unlikely to have ever numbered much higher than 5,000 at any time. Their numbers were boosted by mercenaries from southern Italy, but it is also possible that mercenaries came from as far away as southern France. The Normans made San Fratello a garrison town in the early years of the occupation of the north-eastern corner of Sicily. To this day (in ever decreasing numbers) a Siculo-Gallic dialect is spoken in San Fratello that is clearly influenced by Old Provençal, leading one to the conclusion that a significant number in the garrison came from that part of France. This may well explain the dialect spoken only in San Fratello, but it does not wholly explain the diffusion of many Provençal words into the Sicilian language. On that point we are confronted with a further two possibilities.# Some Provençal words may have entered the language during the regency of Queen Margaret between 1166 and 1171 when her son, William II of Sicily succeeded to the throne at the age of 12. The Queen's closest advisers, entourage and administrators were from the south of France, and many Provençal words entered the language during this period.# The Sicilian School of poetry (discussed below) was strongly influenced by the Provençal of the troubadour tradition. This element is deeply embedded in Sicilian culture, for example, the tradition of Sicilian puppetry (opira dî puppi) and the tradition of the cantastorii (literally sing stories). There is no doubt that Provençal troubadours were active during the reign of Frederick II, Holy Roman Emperor, and that some Provençal words would have passed into the Sicilian language via this route.

            Some examples of Sicilian words derived from Provençal:
            addumari - to light (from allumar)
            aggrifari - to kidnap, abduct (from grifar)
            banna â€" side, place (from banda)
            burgisi - landowners, citizens (from borges)
            *lascu - sparse, thin, infrequent (from lasc)
            *lavanca - precipice (from lavanca)
            *paraggiu - equal (from paratge'')

            Comment


            • #7
              Lombard

              Lombard

              Lombard is spoken mainly in the north of Italy in all of Lombardy, except in the province of Pavia. It is also spoken in the Swiss canton of Ticino and three valleys of Graubünden/Grigioni. Western Lombard varieties are spoken in Sicily (Piazza Armerina, Nicosia) and Lombard is also spoken in USA. There are a number of dialects of Lombard with only limited mutual intelligibility between them.

              The word "Lombard" is derived from "Longobard(us)", the name of a Germanic tribe which lived in central and northern Italy between about 600-800 AD. It is also used to refer the to the inhabitants of the central Padan Valley, a region known as Lombardy because it is based around the Longobard kingdom. During the Middle Ages the Italian word lombardo was used to refer to all inhabitants of northern Italy.

              Lombard has never been an official language but in the last ten years it has been recognized as a separate language by some linguists. Though it is not currently taught in schools, some people are trying to have it introduced into primary schools. Lombard is spoken mainly by older people and is not popular with the young, particularly in the cities and towns. As a result, it is in danger of becoming extinct within a couple of generations. Lombard is the symbol of regional pride particularly among supporters of regional autonomy / independence.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by johnraciti
                Lombard

                Lombard is spoken mainly in the north of Italy in all of Lombardy, except in the province of Pavia. It is also spoken in the Swiss canton of Ticino and three valleys of Graubünden/Grigioni. Western Lombard varieties are spoken in Sicily (Piazza Armerina, Nicosia) and Lombard is also spoken in USA. There are a number of dialects of Lombard with only limited mutual intelligibility between them.

                The word "Lombard" is derived from "Longobard(us)", the name of a Germanic tribe which lived in central and northern Italy between about 600-800 AD. It is also used to refer the to the inhabitants of the central Padan Valley, a region known as Lombardy because it is based around the Longobard kingdom. During the Middle Ages the Italian word lombardo was used to refer to all inhabitants of northern Italy.

                Lombard has never been an official language but in the last ten years it has been recognized as a separate language by some linguists. Though it is not currently taught in schools, some people are trying to have it introduced into primary schools. Lombard is spoken mainly by older people and is not popular with the young, particularly in the cities and towns. As a result, it is in danger of becoming extinct within a couple of generations. Lombard is the symbol of regional pride particularly among supporters of regional autonomy / independence.
                Lombard is not a language, it's only a dialect of Latin derivation with some words of Gallic and Germanic origin. It varies from town to town and I doubt it's still spoken in Sicily.

                The Lombards, those who live in the Italian region named Lombardy, aren't the same as the Langobards, the Germanic people better known in English as Lombards.

                I am Lombard, because my mother is from Lombardy and because this is where I was born and grew up, and I am Italian. As a Lombard I would say it would be crazy to teach dialect in schools.

                Those who promote the teaching of Lombard dialect in schools most of the times have a political aim and some of them also speak about secession. John, these people often show the utmost contempt towards Latin culture and Southern Italians, so I am surprised to read that you, an American of Sicilian origin, seem to support them.

                PS

                The longest-enduring Langobard dominions weren't in Northern Italy (where they were defeated by the Franks), but in Central and Southern Italy, with the very powerful Duchies of Spoleto, in Umbria, and of Benevento, in Campania.
                Last edited by F.E.C.; 7 April 2007, 09:55 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by F.E.C.
                  John, did you test with Ethnoancestry and come up R1b1c9/S21+?
                  Originally posted by MMaddi
                  John,

                  I have the same question as Francesco. Have you gotten an S21+ result from Ethnoancestry?
                  I guess John didn't see your question, guys.

                  Apparently he is engaged in a kind of monologue here.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    null439 - R1b1c9a

                    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/null439

                    R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29

                    R1b1c9a

                    18 50398 Atkins R1b1 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 16 18 10 11 19 23 15 16 18 16 38 39 12 12
                    19 17829 Hazlewood R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 16 16 10 11 19 23 16 16 17 17 37 39 12 12
                    20 10817 Hazelwood R1b1 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 16 16 10 11 19 23 16 16 17 17 37 39 12 12
                    21 82213 Elliott R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 16 16 10 11 19 23 16 16 18 17 39 40 12 12
                    22 61641 Arthur R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 9 11 11 24 15 19 29 15 16 16 17 12 11 19 23 16 15 17 16 37 40 12 12
                    23 37977 Atkins R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 14 15 16 10 11 19 23 15 16 18 16 38 39 12 12
                    24 25863 Atkins R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 16 18 10 11 19 23 15 16 18 16 37 38 12 12
                    25 66453 Atkins R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 16 18 10 11 19 23 15 16 18 16 37 39 12 12
                    26 25841 Atkins R1b1 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 16 18 10 11 19 23 15 16 18 16 38 38 12 12
                    27 80794 Hazelwood R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 16 16 10 11 19 23 16 16 19 17 37 39 12 12
                    28 69306 Lawrence R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 30 15 16 16 17 11 11 19 23 15 16 16 16 38 38 11 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 15 10 12 12 16 8 12 23 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 13 12
                    29 23316 Butler R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 30 16 16 16 17 10 11 19 19 17 16 17 17 38 38 12 12
                    30 52383 Silver R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 16 16 17 11 11 19 23 16 15 17 18 37 39 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 16 10 12 12 16 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 13 12
                    31 49557 Rofe R1b 13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29


                    Scottish
                    English Anglo-Saxon
                    Irish, Scottish
                    Irish, Scottish Gaelic
                    English Anglo-Saxon
                    German, Irish Anglo-French Gaelic
                    English, German
                    English Normans

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      R1b1c9

                      Please, who can give more information about the Haplogroup
                      R1b1c9? From where does it come? I thought that it came from
                      Scandinavia, but I also read that this haplogroup (the Anglo-Saxon-Frisian
                      group) arose in northeast Germany.

                      It also is an interesting thing to read that East-Anglians called the
                      Frisians Warnians. And why not Saxons? I also read in a Dutch
                      archeological magazine called Westerheem that the Saxons and Warns
                      had a Slavic tribe, called the Wilts as allies. The Wilts accompained the
                      Saxons for possible settlement in England. It failed and they
                      were forced to return to the Netherlands, especially the region between
                      the Maas and Rhine. According this article in Westerheem the Warns
                      and Wilts settled theirselves down in this area, the region between Leiden-
                      Rotterdam-Utrecht. So unbelievable: Dutch farmers should have
                      some Wilt (Slavic) ancestors. It is a difficult thing for me to understand it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Haganus
                        I also read in a Dutch
                        archeological magazine called Westerheem that the Saxons and Warns
                        had a Slavic tribe, called the Wilts as allies. The Wilts accompained the
                        Saxons for possible settlement in England. It failed and they
                        were forced to return to the Netherlands, especially the region between
                        the Maas and Rhine. According this article in Westerheem the Warns
                        and Wilts settled theirselves down in this area, the region between Leiden-
                        Rotterdam-Utrecht. So unbelievable: Dutch farmers should have
                        some Wilt (Slavic) ancestors. It is a difficult thing for me to understand it.
                        It has never occurred to me until now to wonder how the English county of Wiltshire acquired its name. I certainly never thought it was called after invading Slavs! Wiltshire is the county with the ancient stone circles of Stonehenge and Avebury, although of course they long predate Saxons, Slavs and Celts.

                        Harry

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X