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  • J1 questions

    I've tried to research as much as possible before coming to this forum with hat in hand but...I need help!
    I'm still having a hard time understanding the results of our family's results through Family Tree DNA. I realized when I tried explaining to my family what it all meant, I didn't quite understand myself.
    We tested my uncle, my mom's brother and he came back with some surprising matches (I'm sure they commonly are!). Many of the exact 12 marker matches have identified themselves as Ashkenazi Jews and there are quite a few more that are one and two mutations away. My family ethnic ancestry is Mexican so perhaps this ancestry can come through Spain?
    I've uploaded the results to Y DNA search #KGW47. Family Tree DNA also did a SNP test because they couldn't accurately place the haplogroup initially. The test came back as J1 M267+. So what does this all mean?
    Also, I was quite disappointed our maternal line, Haplogroup B has absolutely no matches whatsoever in the database.
    Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions!

  • #2
    Ani,

    I'm no expert, but I'm also Y-DNA J1 and I have read everything I can find on the subject.

    The best overall summary is probably this (it will open as a pdf): www.healthanddna.com/JreportY.pdf

    With your known Hispanic ancestry, I think you are correct in assuming your J1 can be traced back to Spain.

    I don't know about that Jewish connection, though. You have a 12/12 match in Italy, and a 10/12 match in Greece. Those suggest movement from Lebanon during the Phoenician era.

    But I defer to whatever the experts on Jewish DNA may have to say.

    Jim

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    • #3
      Here's a really good site: http://members.tripod.com/~GaryFelix/index63.htm

      Has links to scientific papers. Look at Chavarria, nice work by him. The first paper he links to has case 159 which I think matches yours on six markers. Let me know if you get lost.

      Jim

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      • #4
        Ani,

        12-marker matches are very broad, with relationships up to several thousand years ago, so there are always matches with many different surnames, origins and religions. It's generally recommended to upgrade to more markers (25, 37 or 67) to identify your more specific/recent matches. 37 markers is the most ideal level to hone in on your matches within a reasonable genealogical timeframe (about 500 years or less).

        You may also wish to view and join the Haplogroup J project,
        http://www.ftdna.com/public/Y-DNA_J

        Good luck!

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        • #5
          ani:

          regarding your mtdna, B is one of the original native American mtdna haplogroups (together with A,C,D). So you have a European (possibly spanish) haplogroup on the male line and a native american on the female line. This is the common situation in Latin America. The conquest was mostly by males: Spanish males would take local brides.

          I don't think that very many Latin Americans have tested, so that's why you have no matches. I recall a paper on the distribution of B in various native populations, though I don't have it with me now, I'll check tomorrow. In any case, all 4 haplogroups mentioned above were spread over all over N America.

          cacio

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          • #6
            Ani, on the question of whether your family had a Jewish connection, there is no clearcut answer. There were Muslims and Jews in Spain, both groups having a significant percentage of J1s. FTDNA has an overrepresentation (compared to the total J1 population) of J1 Jews in its sample leading to many Jewish matches compared to other groups. As Jim notes, there may also have been an ancient contribution of J1 from what is now Lebanon. Is there anything in your family history, practises or surname that might provide a clue as to background.

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            • #7
              thanks!

              Thanks so much to all of you for your detailed and informative replies. I'll be sure to check out the suggested links. And Jim, your link to Gary Felix's site reminded me I need to upload the results to his page as I did the test through his group, so thanks for that!
              After I received the results, I did some internet research and came across a few articles on Mexicans and Mexican-Americans who discovered hidden Jewish ancestry in their family. The stories are quite fascinating. Thinking hard about it, I don't think my family has any traditions that are unusual for Mexican-Americans. The only thing I think is kind of interesting is my grandfather gave his children Old Testament names and my Uncle has the somewhat Jewish name of Ruben and my uncle named his son Aaron. I think that's probably just a coincidence though.
              As for my Haplogroup B matches, I'll just have to sit around and wait until more Mexicans get tested...
              Thanks again!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by ani
                As for my Haplogroup B matches, I'll just have to sit around and wait until more Mexicans get tested...
                Thanks again!
                mtDNA haplogroup B means Native American ancestry in the maternal line. I understand it's not uncommon for Mexicans and others who live in former Spanish colonies in the Americas to have a European yDNA haplogroup and a Native American mtDNA haplogroup. It seems that the Spanish colonists had children with the Native American women.

                Mike Maddi

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                • #9
                  According to the Geneology of Mexico site (url in Jim's post), it's quite common for Mexicans who have tested to have a Y-DNA European heritage and a mtDNA Native American maternal heritage. I got similar results on my father's side. He's R1b1 and his mother, Haplogroup A. While I knew I was most likely the result of a mixed heritage, I had no idea how prolific the Spanish were...all of this has been quite surprising.

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                  • #10
                    Ani, given the familiy's choice of first names with a J1 background, it might be worth checking out your father's surname. On the internet you can find surnames common among Spanish (Sephardic) Jews.

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                    • #11
                      Great J database website

                      Ani,


                      Here is a great web site for uploading your results for j only.You might also want to think about joining the mexico dna project.

                      http://www.m410.net/yjdb/



                      TK
                      Last edited by TimeKiller; 21 February 2007, 03:19 PM. Reason: forgot link

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                      • #12
                        TK,
                        Yes, I initially ordered the test through the Mexico project, the results are up on the page now: http://members.tripod.com/~GaryFelix/index63.htm
                        Thanks too for the link to the J database page.

                        Josh,
                        Our family name Garcia is included on lists of Sephardic last names. I also noticed there is a Sephardic tradition of naming one's son after one's father. I need to investigate this more but my grandfather did indeed name his first born son after his father and my uncle passed on his father's name to his son. I would love to find out if this is coincidental or not but unfortunately my grandfather passed away quite sometime ago.

                        Thanks again to everyone for their help and I'll keep you all posted if anything exciting turns up.

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                        • #13
                          Ani

                          Oh yeah just a coincidence but ani in hebrew and arabic means I or I am.

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