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  • Oppenheimer Clan Test/interpretation

    Has anyone here had the Oppenheimer Clan Test/interpretation (offered by EthnoAncestry) conducted ? It places you in clusters identified in his new book "The Origins of the British". Looking for feedback.

  • #2
    I haven't had it done but Ron Scott is already collecting data from the results.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Don Potter
      Has anyone here had the Oppenheimer Clan Test/interpretation (offered by EthnoAncestry) conducted ? It places you in clusters identified in his new book "The Origins of the British". Looking for feedback.
      Yes. I have, and I'm shown in cluster R1b-10 (which is obviously known as AMH or Atlantic Modal Haplotype). Only analyzing 6 or 8 markers is kind of ridiculous. Even FTDNA recommends testing for more than 12 markers if a person has a known Western European heritage. If anybody tests with the Haplogroup R1b1c6 or SRY2627 I'll send them a copy of my certificate and save them some money (just replace my name with theirs and voila). I was really hoping for something more than what I got, e.g., more specific regions of Britain/Ireland but curiousity got me. I was even told to not bother because the data was not original but perhaps regurgitated from Dr. Capelli's research. Well, Caveat Emptor with this one!!

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      • #4
        Dr Stephen Oppenheimer "Clans"

        Bringing this thread back to the top again by asking, has anyone been assigned to the R1b-4 "Clan" via the Oppenheimer test that is sold by EthnoAncestry? I have been and it seems to be quite a rare/uncommon assignment. Just looking for others out there.
        Don Potter Jr

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        • #5
          Originally posted by R2-D2
          I haven't had it done but Ron Scott is already collecting data from the results.
          Having checked these results, I see only one person who is R1b1c10, and I'm trying to understand how this is worked out. His 13 at DYS392 is highlighted in yellow. Is this a key factor? He also has DYS393=13, 390=25, 19=14, 391=10, 389i=13 and 389ii=29.

          I don't understand the use of the terms "clan" and "haplogroup" here. I thought they were synonymous (Bryan Sykes uses "clan" where others use "haplogroup"), but I note that someone in haplogroup R1b1c9* is in clan R1b-11, while someone in haplogroup R1b1c9b is in clan R1b-15c. ???

          Harry

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          • #6
            Originally posted by hdw
            Having checked these results, I see only one person who is R1b1c10, and I'm trying to understand how this is worked out. His 13 at DYS392 is highlighted in yellow. Is this a key factor? He also has DYS393=13, 390=25, 19=14, 391=10, 389i=13 and 389ii=29.

            I don't understand the use of the terms "clan" and "haplogroup" here. I thought they were synonymous (Bryan Sykes uses "clan" where others use "haplogroup"), but I note that someone in haplogroup R1b1c9* is in clan R1b-11, while someone in haplogroup R1b1c9b is in clan R1b-15c. ???

            Harry
            Well, you've just highlighted how silly Oppenheimer's "clan" classifications are. First of all, they're based on analyzing 6 markers - JUST 6 markers - all in the FTDNA first panel of 12. What a joke! As if everything you need to know about a haplotype and what is its deep ancestry is told by a magical 6 markers out of 12.

            His "clans" have no correlation with SNP-defined haplogroups, as you noted above, when he can place two men who are R1b1c9 in two different "clans." It's really an embarassment to Ethnoancestry when they market Oppenheimer's "analysis" to their customers. And I pity the foolish genetic genealogists who paid $75 for this crap. And some of them continue to discuss what "clan" they're in, as if this has some meaning or relation to reality!

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            • #7
              MMaddi,
              Please don't pity me. I paid $75 for this test because of my very rare/uncommon haplotype. Just trying to find/learn more about it. I am in haplogroup R1b (FTDNA SNP test confirmed) but do not seem to match up with other R1b people at the DYS positions that everyone claims indicates a R1b lineage. My ID code at ysearch.org is PEZBS. Please feel free to take a look and comment about my haplotype/DYS values. On my FTDNA haplogroup page I have 22 1-step mutations at the 12-marker level and 20 of them are R1a (not R1b). When I was first tested by FTDNA they listed me as R1 undifferentiated, then R1a, then conducted numerous SNP tests all the way from R down, to include R1a and R1b to find out I was R1b the most common haplogroup for "R". I have also tested negative for all the R1b subclades that FTDNA test for.
              Funny thing about this "crap" analysis is that my haplotype seems to match two Iberian sets of samples more so than any other British sample (explained in the Oppenheimer book). The "Clan" I am assigned to (R1b-4) seems to be found in a small area of northern Wales and accordong to Ancestry.com, the 1891 British census shows my surname (Potter) at it's higest level in Lancashire and York which by chance (maybe, maybe not) are located just east of northern Wales. The Welsh naming system would make tracing by surname impossible prior to about 1700 or so. Maybe this test is not for everyone but it has given me hope of finding my English roots in one certain area of England (the North Midlands). I am open for any further suggestions.
              V/r
              Don Potter Jr

              P.S.
              I am a big fan of FTDNA but if you want to talk about a crap test how about the DNAPrint which they offered and I had completed early on. Now that was a "complete" waste of money !

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Don Potter
                MMaddi,
                My ID code at ysearch.org is PEZBS. Please feel free to take a look and comment about my haplotype/DYS values. On my FTDNA haplogroup page I have 22 1-step mutations at the 12-marker level and 20 of them are R1a (not R1b). When I was first tested by FTDNA they listed me as R1 undifferentiated, then R1a, then conducted numerous SNP tests all the way from R down, to include R1a and R1b to find out I was R1b the most common haplogroup for "R". I have also tested negative for all the R1b subclades that FTDNA test for.
                V/r
                Don Potter Jr
                Hello Don. I had a look at your ID code and it certainly looks like R1b of some kind. However, I notice that you have DYS392=11 instead of the more usual 13. A distant relative of mine on my paternal grandmother's side was persuaded to take the 37-marker test. A lot of his DYS values were the same as mine (I'm R1b, probably R1b1c), but he had DYS392=11, and he was told he was R1a. He also had DYS19=15, if that's significant.

                I've often wished I had a checklist of DYS values which are modal for different haplogroups - or maybe individual markers alone aren't that significant?

                Harry

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by hdw
                  I've often wished I had a checklist of DYS values which are modal for different haplogroups - or maybe individual markers alone aren't that significant?

                  Harry
                  Harry,

                  Here's a couple of very useful genetic genealogy links that are along the lines you're talking about.

                  If you prefer to estimate the haplogroup of a haplotype yourself, use this table of the distribution of marker values by haplogroup - http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....logy/yfreq.htm This allows you to see what are the most common values for each marker in the FTDNA 67 for each major haplogroup. It was put together by Leo Little using ysearch and FTDNA public project results. In the case of R1b, he includes the results from over 22,000 haplotypes.

                  If you prefer to just plug in a haplotype's marker values and let a program tell you what's the likely haplogroup, use this one - https://home.comcast.net/~hapest5/hapest5b/hapest5.htm This is Whit Athey's haplogroup predictor. After you plug in the marker values, it will give you two figures, a fitness score and a probability (given as a percentage). The fitness score ranks the haplotype's marker values in 21 different haplogroups and subclades. The directions indicate that a fitness score above 50 indicates a good fit for the haplogroup. The probability gives you the percentage of each haplogroup that have those marker values in ysearch. Usually, the probability will only include 1-3 haplogroups, meaning only that many haplogroups are found in ysearch for those specific marker values.

                  Or you can use both of those links and do your own manual estimate of haplogroup using Leo's table and then compare it the automated haplogroup prediction using Whit's predictor.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MMaddi
                    Harry,

                    Here's a couple of very useful genetic genealogy links that are along the lines you're talking about.

                    If you prefer to estimate the haplogroup of a haplotype yourself, use this table of the distribution of marker values by haplogroup - http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....logy/yfreq.htm This allows you to see what are the most common values for each marker in the FTDNA 67 for each major haplogroup. It was put together by Leo Little using ysearch and FTDNA public project results. In the case of R1b, he includes the results from over 22,000 haplotypes.

                    If you prefer to just plug in a haplotype's marker values and let a program tell you what's the likely haplogroup, use this one - https://home.comcast.net/~hapest5/hapest5b/hapest5.htm This is Whit Athey's haplogroup predictor. After you plug in the marker values, it will give you two figures, a fitness score and a probability (given as a percentage). The fitness score ranks the haplotype's marker values in 21 different haplogroups and subclades. The directions indicate that a fitness score above 50 indicates a good fit for the haplogroup. The probability gives you the percentage of each haplogroup that have those marker values in ysearch. Usually, the probability will only include 1-3 haplogroups, meaning only that many haplogroups are found in ysearch for those specific marker values.

                    Or you can use both of those links and do your own manual estimate of haplogroup using Leo's table and then compare it the automated haplogroup prediction using Whit's predictor.
                    Thanks for that, I'll try them out.

                    Harry

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by hdw
                      Hello Don. I had a look at your ID code and it certainly looks like R1b of some kind. However, I notice that you have DYS392=11 instead of the more usual 13. A distant relative of mine on my paternal grandmother's side was persuaded to take the 37-marker test. A lot of his DYS values were the same as mine (I'm R1b, probably R1b1c), but he had DYS392=11, and he was told he was R1a. He also had DYS19=15, if that's significant.

                      I've often wished I had a checklist of DYS values which are modal for different haplogroups - or maybe individual markers alone aren't that significant?

                      Harry
                      Harry,
                      I wonder if anyone here or anyone on other websites and message boards out there would like to bat this one around for awhile ? As you point out I am DYS392=11 and the "norm" for R1b is DYS392=13. I'm off by "2" and I am definetly R1b1c (SNP tested by FTDNA). I also came up negative for the 8 subclades FTDNA test downstream of that. Any ideas on (1) an age for my haplotype (2) maybe a geographic area for it or (3) a timeframe for it's migration from the Iberian peninsula ? Maybe I'm as rare as the Loch Ness monster; a living relic of a very small line that made it in very small numbers for a very long period of time. My wife thinks I'm very "different". HA HA HA

                      Don Potter Jr
                      Y-Search ID code : PEZBS

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                      • #12
                        What are the modal values for all of Oppenheimers clans for R1b, R1a, I1(I1a), etc?

                        I find all of this interesting....

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