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  • iberiandave
    replied
    derinos: I get what your driving at and I'm curious. Thanks for the change of direction with just a tidbit of info. I'll look into these areas you site with great interest.

    Leave a comment:


  • derinos
    replied
    Language and religion leave no mark on the DNA ?

    Originally posted by iberiandave
    I haven't read any info on this theory until today. Does anyone know how DYS 390 has been given the attention to somehow form data that postulates this theory? My DYS 390 is 24 and according to the theory I fall under the Q-Celtic category of R1b. Since R1b is such a big pool I'm curious if this can help categorize it in addition to the deep snp tests. My deep snp is pending in batch 187 and has a target date for late February.
    "Culture does not leave a mark on the DNA."
    ....But geographical correlations sometimes exist! However, also they can be later negated.

    For example,
    Wales, being Brythonic, even still speaks P-Keltic. But several areas such as Pembrokeshire, coastal Carmarthenshire, and Cardigan Bay enclaves, were patchily invaded and settled by Irish Q-Keltic speakers, sometimes by quite small localised clans, up to about the 8th C.
    One sheltered bay is named "Porth Dinllaen", meaning the "port of the Leinstermen", who presumably visited frequently and sometimes settled.
    (Saint Patrick is said to have been initially kidnapped to Ireland as part of this two-way traffic.)

    Leave a comment:


  • SaintManx
    replied
    Originally posted by vineviz
    You can't find this, because individual markers indicate next to nothing about "ethnic plausibility".

    Looking at the totality of ALL your Y-STR markers can give you an indication about which haplogroup you belong to, but only an SNP test can confirm your haplogroup.

    Even then, the correlation between haplogroup and ethnicity is weak at best.
    I agree, since R1b1's are found all over the world. I have noticed that many people in here have indicated ethnicity based on dys values. Dr. McEwan's project compiles info with regard to subclades and attempts to classify the people with regard to migratory patterns. I was beginning to think that there existed "magic markers".

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  • vineviz
    replied
    Originally posted by SaintManx
    How can I find out what each DYS is indicative of in terms of ethnic plausability?
    You can't find this, because individual markers indicate next to nothing about "ethnic plausibility".

    Looking at the totality of ALL your Y-STR markers can give you an indication about which haplogroup you belong to, but only an SNP test can confirm your haplogroup.

    Even then, the correlation between haplogroup and ethnicity is weak at best.

    Leave a comment:


  • SaintManx
    replied
    More info please....

    Originally posted by iberiandave
    GregKiroKH2: Thank you for references. I'll find them to be informative.
    MMaddi: Fair warning that makes sense.
    haplogroupc: That's the one.
    I posted a query about this last week and I have had 0 reads and responses. How can I find out what each DYS is indicative of in terms of ethnic plausability? I am in agreement with Mike about this because my values have indications in several different DYS'. My 390 is 24 BUT my 393 is 12, which is what most J2's have, but I am an R1b1, and most have 13 at 393.

    I would appreciate any heads up!

    Cheers,

    Rosario

    Leave a comment:


  • iberiandave
    replied
    GregKiroKH2: Thank you for references. I'll find them to be informative.
    MMaddi: Fair warning that makes sense.
    haplogroupc: That's the one.

    Leave a comment:


  • GregKiroKH2
    replied
    Those ideas most likely came from ten years ago when finding one different marker in the Y-DNA was something unique. Twenty years ago or so, all Y-DNA was the same. You remember lambda DNA and all . . . What were the original haplotypes and values?

    1) Various Internet sites claim that DYS390 = 25 is more Irish and DYS390 = 23 is more Germanic.

    2) Dr. Hammer at the University of Arizona: FTDNA's
    "panels" of markers (1:12), (13:25), (26:37) were assessed
    at rates of .00399, .00481, .00748, respectively. The
    average for all 37 was .0058.


    3) AMH
    DYS19 = 14
    DYS388 = 12
    DYS390 = 24
    DYS391 = 11
    DYS392 = 13
    DYS393 = 13

    the descriptive term used by James F. Wilson to characterize the
    most common haplotype in parts of Europe. The
    If you have one mutation in either direction,
    then you are AMH 1.15+. The AMH 1.15
    haplotype is also referred to as the Atlantic
    Modal Cluster or AMC. Generally 1.15+ puts you
    in haplogroup 1 (H1) (which is R1b), but not
    always.

    4) CMH
    DYS388=16
    DYS390=23
    DYS391=10
    DYS392=11
    DYS393=12
    DYS394=14 (also known as DYS19)

    Michael F. Hammer, Karl Skorecki, and their colleagues in their
    January 2, 1997 paper in Nature volume 385 entitled "Y Chromosomes
    of Jewish Priests" and that of Karl Skorecki, David Goldstein, et al. in
    Nature volume 394 entitled "Origins of Old Testament Priests" as well
    as the related studies with the Lemba tribe of South Africa (American
    Journal of Human Genetics volume 66) and Jewish populations around
    the world (PNAS volume 97 issue 12).

    Leave a comment:


  • MMaddi
    replied
    I would be very wary about making a subclade or cluster prediction based on merely one marker. If you can identify a combination of 3 or 4 distinctive markers that's been seen in people who test positive for a certain SNP, that would be much more reliable.

    Mike

    Leave a comment:


  • haplogroupc
    replied
    I've read about this, too. Supposedly, if you're R1b and you've got 23 at 390 you're most likely P-Celtic and your closest matches would be "English anglo saxon invaders of Great Briton" and central Europeans.

    If you've got 24 at 390 you're most likely Q-Celtic and your closest matches would be the Irish. I don't know how true this is but it would make my dad Q-Celtic.

    Leave a comment:


  • iberiandave
    started a topic P-Celtic & Q-Celtic

    P-Celtic & Q-Celtic

    I haven't read any info on this theory until today. Does anyone know how DYS 390 has been given the attention to somehow form data that postulates this theory? My DYS 390 is 24 and according to the theory I fall under the Q-Celtic category of R1b. Since R1b is such a big pool I'm curious if this can help categorize it in addition to the deep snp tests. My deep snp is pending in batch 187 and has a target date for late February.
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