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  • J2 deep clade questions

    I received my J2 deep clade results from FTDNA indicating "negative" results for all subclades downstream of the J2 clade, M172. According to my updated haplogroup tab, I am "J2" with no letters, symbols or numbers thereafter. This is disappointing to me as I hoped the testing would reveal something deeper about my ancestral origins.

    Further, I have seen a reference in a recent scholarly paper to a SNP identified as M410. The authors claimed that the research suggested that any J2 who tests M12- (as I did) must necessarily be M410+ since no one who was M172+ has yet been found to be both M12- and M410-. Apparently FTDNP does not test for the M410 SNP, but another testing company does. Is this further testing worth exploring, or can I at this point safely conclude that I am M410+ without further testing?

    I note that FTDNA does not include M410 in its J2 tree, but M410 appears in the isogg.org J2 tree as defining the revised subclade J2a. Does this indicate that FTDNA disputes the validity of M410 for purposes of distinguishing the subclade? If not, why isn't FTDNA recognizing and testing this SNP?

    Any thoughts, anyone? Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by ylgitn; 15 January 2007, 07:33 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by ylgitn
    I received my J2 deep clade results from FTDNA indicating "negative" results for all subclades downstream of the J2 clade, M172. According to my updated haplogroup tab, I am "J2" with no letters, symbols or numbers thereafter. This is disappointing to me as I hoped the testing would reveal something deeper about my ancestral origins.

    Further, I have seen a reference in a recent scholarly paper to a SNP identified as M410. The authors claimed that the research suggested that any J2 who tests M12- (as I did) must necessarily be M410+ since no one who was M172+ has yet been found to be both M12- and M410-. Apparently FTDNP does not test for the M410 SNP, but another testing company does. Is this further testing worth exploring, or can I at this point safely conclude that I am M410+ without further testing?

    I note that FTDNA does not include M410 in its J2 tree, but M410 appears in the isogg.org J2 tree as defining the revised subclade J2a. Does this indicate that FTDNA disputes the validity of M410 for purposes of distinguishing the subclade? If not, why isn't FTDNA recognizing and testing this SNP?

    Any thoughts, anyone? Thanks in advance.

    Hi brother,

    I am also J2* according to FTDNA. In reality though I am right now J2a* since I tested positive for M410 at Ethnoancestry. I am now having DYS413 tested by FTDNA to see if I have DYS413<==18 which will make me J2a1*.

    Do not be disapointed about your results! Be proud of them! In time I am sure they will discover some more subclades within the very large percentage of men who are now J2* or J2a1*.

    I would say that it is safe to assume that you are M410+ since you tested negative for M12. If you want to be 100% sure though you can take the test from Ethnoancestry, that is what I did In all liklihood though your are M410+.

    FTDNA seems strange to me now in some ways since they seem to be holding on to a lot of the old nomenclature. I do not think that FTDNA disputes the validity of M410 they simply for some reason do not test for it. They might not test for it because Ethnoancestry developed it and has the primers for it.



    Y-DNA: J2a*

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by J Man
      Hi brother,

      I am also J2* according to FTDNA. In reality though I am right now J2a* since I tested positive for M410 at Ethnoancestry. I am now having DYS413 tested by FTDNA to see if I have DYS413<==18 which will make me J2a1*.

      Do not be disapointed about your results! Be proud of them! In time I am sure they will discover some more subclades within the very large percentage of men who are now J2* or J2a1*.

      I would say that it is safe to assume that you are M410+ since you tested negative for M12. If you want to be 100% sure though you can take the test from Ethnoancestry, that is what I did In all liklihood though your are M410+.

      FTDNA seems strange to me now in some ways since they seem to be holding on to a lot of the old nomenclature. I do not think that FTDNA disputes the validity of M410 they simply for some reason do not test for it. They might not test for it because Ethnoancestry developed it and has the primers for it.



      Y-DNA: J2a*
      Thanks for the very detailed response (and encouragement), J Man! I'm thinking I may wait about a year to see if any additional possible subclades emerge by then, and then try a repeat test with any testing company that tests all the relevant SNPs.

      I see that Ethnoancestry tests for another SNP that FTDNA does not, M340. Apparently M340 defines a newly recognized subclade of M410. Did you test for that one as well?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ylgitn
        Thanks for the very detailed response (and encouragement), J Man! I'm thinking I may wait about a year to see if any additional possible subclades emerge by then, and then try a repeat test with any testing company that tests all the relevant SNPs.

        I see that Ethnoancestry tests for another SNP that FTDNA does not, M340. Apparently M340 defines a newly recognized subclade of M410. Did you test for that one as well?


        Hmm very interesting and no I did not test for M340 yet. I am going to research it first to see if it will be worth it.

        DO you know what the new subclade is called that is represented by M340?



        Y-DNA: J2a*

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by J Man
          Hmm very interesting and no I did not test for M340 yet. I am going to research it first to see if it will be worth it.

          DO you know what the new subclade is called that is represented by M340?



          Y-DNA: J2a*

          J Man, check out this link, M340 is listed there and the subclade is called J2a2 (formerly J2h)...

          http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpJ.html

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ylgitn
            J Man, check out this link, M340 is listed there and the subclade is called J2a2 (formerly J2h)...

            http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpJ.html

            Thanks for the link. Alright this is pretty interesting. Maybe many of the J2a*s who are not really J2a1*s (ie they have DYS413===>18) are in the subgroup J2a2. I am going to waite for my results from FTDNA for DYS413 because that will then show if I am J2a1* or not. After I get my results from FTDNA I will then start thinking about my next test.


            Have you had DYS413 tested at all yet?



            Y-DNA: J2a*

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by J Man
              Thanks for the link. Alright this is pretty interesting. Maybe many of the J2a*s who are not really J2a1*s (ie they have DYS413===>18) are in the subgroup J2a2. I am going to waite for my results from FTDNA for DYS413 because that will then show if I am J2a1* or not. After I get my results from FTDNA I will then start thinking about my next test.


              Have you had DYS413 tested at all yet?



              Y-DNA: J2a*

              No, but I think I'm going to do so, since it I see that DYS 413 is listed on FTDNA's a la carte menu and perhaps it can be ordered alone at the nominal price listed. It makes sense to see what the DYS 413 result is before doing any further tests.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ylgitn
                No, but I think I'm going to do so, since it I see that DYS 413 is listed on FTDNA's a la carte menu and perhaps it can be ordered alone at the nominal price listed. It makes sense to see what the DYS 413 result is before doing any further tests.

                Yes DYS413 is listed a la carte and that is how I ordered it also. It is much cheaper that way. Yes it does make sense to me to see what DYS413 is before ordering any other tests.


                By the way what country or region is your paternal line from?



                Y-DNA: J2a*

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by J Man
                  Yes DYS413 is listed a la carte and that is how I ordered it also. It is much cheaper that way. Yes it does make sense to me to see what DYS413 is before ordering any other tests.


                  By the way what country or region is your paternal line from?



                  Y-DNA: J2a*

                  Ireland, County Laois...and yours?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ylgitn
                    Ireland, County Laois...and yours?

                    Cool. My line is from Aprigliano, province of Cosenza in Calabria, Italy.




                    Y-DNA: J2a*

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      ylgitn have you tested for DYS445 yet? This marker defines subgroup J2a1k. If you have a value of 9 at this marker instead of 8 you are then J2a1k.



                      Y-DNA: J2a*

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by J Man
                        ylgitn have you tested for DYS445 yet? This marker defines subgroup J2a1k. If you have a value of 9 at this marker instead of 8 you are then J2a1k.



                        Y-DNA: J2a*
                        J Man, thanks for the heads up on this. I will look up that marker and see if it makes sense to add it when I order DYS 413.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ylgitn
                          J Man, thanks for the heads up on this. I will look up that marker and see if it makes sense to add it when I order DYS 413.

                          No problem.



                          Y-DNA: J2a*

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            modal haplotype

                            ylgitn hi, I am a J2* from India. I was wondering, how close are you to the KMH (Kurdish modal haplotype) shared with the Samaritans:

                            Dys 19=14, 388=15, 390=23, 391=10, 392=11, 393=12

                            regards,

                            bob

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bob_chasm
                              ylgitn hi, I am a J2* from India. I was wondering, how close are you to the KMH (Kurdish modal haplotype) shared with the Samaritans:

                              Dys 19=14, 388=15, 390=23, 391=10, 392=11, 393=12

                              regards,

                              bob
                              Hi Bob, I'm a genetic distance of 3 from those values (I have DYS 390=22 and 393=14, but match on the other markers).

                              Comment

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