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Haplogroup I1c/I1b2a

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  • Haplogroup I1c/I1b2a

    I need some help my haplogroup is I1c/I1b2a or whatever its called today.My SNPs are M170+M223+M258+P19+P38+ M161-M227-M253-M26-M307-M72-P30-P37.2-.DYS 393=(15),390=(23),19=(16),391=(10) 385a=(13),385b=(14),426=(11),388=(13),439=(10),389-1=(12), 392=(12),389-2=(29).My Great Grandfather came from County Tyrone Northern Ireland.I'm trying to figure out how my people got to Ireland and where did they come from?.From everything that I have read these are the possibilities, A) Angles & Saxons, B)Celts C)frisians, D)Viking invaders E)Normans F)Jutes G) Visagoths H) Ancient People not known.I have found only one person who has my exact above mentioned DYS markers and he is a Basque from Maryland.So my question is this,is there ever going to be a way to narrow down exactly where and when a persons ancestors came from? Or is this as good as it gets.Also if anyone has any information or theories on Haplogroup I1c/I1b2a I would love to hear from you. Thanks Mark Cassidy

  • #2
    I1c is aboriginal European.

    I don't claim to being an expert, but my own I1a led me to look at the other I Haplogroups of YDNA.
    Your line is definitely European, very early arrivals (Gravettian stone tool period) about 22000 years ago from the Anatolia-Middle east staging area ex Africa, living south of the ice sheet at various latitudes as the ice moved south for a couple of millenia, then moving northwards and westwards after about 18,000 years ago as the ice retreated. By 10,000 years ago it was easier to migrate across Europe, and WE THE PEOPLE did so in larger numbers. By 4000 years ago language groups within the Indo European bundle separated out as Germanic-Nordic, Keltic, and "Southern"; they all contain I1c proportions, the Keltic speakers being traceable up to a few hundred years BC as immigrating to Ireland via southern Britain, France and Iberia, and the Germano-Nordic speakers towards Iceland and North Ireland. Mostly the seafaring kinds of people, by the way. Anything more recent than that fall more and more into named cultural or administrative groupings of tribes, variably classified as nations, which have been melting into and out of each other genetically with increasing frequency in the last two millenia.
    Ireland contains several major genetic match- groupings, which are geographically well mixed together apart from some standouts like the O'Niall tribe; and especially the population of the extreme Irish West coast.
    The latter has very ancient DNA matches still present in the Basques, mountain Welsh, and mountain Armenians, which may represent the earliest westward drift from the mideast exit from Africa.
    Slainte, Westerner!

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    • #3
      There's more to come , Mark.

      I apologise for the very general nature of my posting, but things will improve.
      As you are probably reading in these fora, you can order more Ymarkers, and some new autosomal analyses (like the Tribes tests) to widen? narrow down? the geographic matches. There is still lack of a wide enough database of tested persons to form a uniform pan-European match-bed. Also there is the individual testing expense, which does not seem to bother our friends the FTDNA clients, but is deterrent in many countries.
      I would guess that in ten years you will get the precise answer you are seeking.
      Meanwhile you will be offering up your allele list to some of the free matching programs on the Web, which are given as links in the fora replies. Good winter homework. My matches are all in Iceland, Denmark, and Norway so at least I understand why I have always liked sailing!
      Dias murra'agath!

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      • #4
        Great Info

        Thank you derinos for taking the time to share that information on I1c.You must of done some in depth research on the subject.I also believe we were some of the first people to inhabit (pre-keltic) Ireland ,do to the fact that we (have dark hair and brown eyes)and are commonly refered to as black Irish. I guess what I would really like to know is how long were we in Ireland and or the British Isles,and where did we come from directly before that.Also do you think taking that Tribe test will tell me anything worth while or is it just a waste of money? Thanks Mark

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        • #5
          Originally posted by mark cassidy
          do to the fact that we (have dark hair and brown eyes)and are commonly refered to as black Irish.
          Does that mean I'm going to have my membership revoked for being blonde and blue eyed?

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          • #6
            Still a member

            Blond hair, blue eyes perhaps an Irish Celt or a decendant of a Viking Invader.Either way your a member,just not a charter member.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by mark cassidy
              I also believe we were some of the first people to inhabit (pre-keltic) Ireland ,do to the fact that we (have dark hair and brown eyes)and are commonly refered to as black Irish.
              I recall reading somewhere that Ireland is the only place in the world with a large concentration of people with dark hair, fair skin and BLUE eyes (like me). I had always associated that particular combo with being Black Irish, but I guess brown eyes work too.

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              • #8
                Right you are

                You are absolutely correct.I guess the main criteria for being a black irish is black hair. But that makes me wonder, now that I'm turning gray(salt & peper) will I lose my status as a black Irish. If so I will just have to come up with a new designation. Lets see Silver Irish ya that sounds good.It definately is a group that will be expanding in time.It will eventually be open to all aging Irish folk except the bald ones I suppose.Sorry can't please everyone lol. Mark Cassidy
                Last edited by mark cassidy; 13 January 2007, 10:22 AM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by mark cassidy
                  You are absolutely correct.I guess the main criteria for being a black irish is black hair. But that makes me wonder, now that I'm turning gray(salt & peper) will I lose my status as a black Irish. If so I will just have to come up with a new designation. Lets see Silver Irish ya that sounds good.It definately is a group that will be expanding in time.It will eventually be open to all aging Irish folk except the bald ones I suppose.Sorry can't please everyone lol. Mark Cassidy
                  I hear you--I'm turning a little more Silver Irish myself as the years go by. I also have a relative who has lost most of his hair, but something tells me he would not be very amused if I started calling him Bald Irish (LOL).

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                  • #10
                    How about this?

                    Quite right,no one wants to be referred to as bald Irish. So how about follicly challanged Irish?

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