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  • tomcat
    replied
    Originally posted by Cromag
    ...
    I was so excited to take part in NGS testing and took the test very early in the life cycle of the project, but see little value in finding out that I'm part of the largest haplogroup in Europe (R1B1), and may have ancestry from Frisia based on my DYS 390/391 23/11 values. I've only done the 12 marker test but am reluctant to shell out more money to find out, well...nothing....
    Cromag
    I took my first Mt-DNA test when FTDNA had less than 20 listings in my haplogroup and now there are more than 150. I have since upgraded! And although I have yet to be matched - have yet to find someone with more information to help me crack my brick wall - I don't regret the expense or involvement.

    I decided on a less incremental approach to Y-DNA and sprung-for 67 markers at once.

    Obviously, for both measures I am uselessly, out-ahead of most people tested. But as I regard DNA testing as science-by-subscription, I am supporting demand and the goal of more information. FTDNA assures me that my Mt-DNA FGS results can be of real use to their scientists.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beth Long
    replied
    Very Interesting Test Results!

    Originally posted by lgmayka
    I find it very interesting to learn where my (and my relatives' and friends') patrilineal ancestors came from, where they went, and how they got to where we are today. I have paid for, and gotten most of the results already from, full 67-marker tests of all these men. In general, the results have been interesting enough to be worth my money.

    The one possible exception was one friend who turned out not to be at all interested in the matter--he didn't even have time to hear much about his results.

    Here are examples of my results:

    http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...ting_marker=31
    These are my own results. As you can see, I am I1b. My patrilineal ancestor came north from the Balkans; and the rather short genetic distances between us indicate that this dispersal occurred perhaps within the last 2000 years.

    http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...ting_marker=41
    These are my uncle's results. He is G2, which has its center in the Caucasus. No other testee is very close to him. Perhaps his patrilineal ancestor was a Sarmatian who mixed into the Slavic population in the 5th century in order to avoid the invading Huns.

    http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...ting_marker=51
    This is one of my cousins. He is R1b1c, and is arguably in the R1b47Scot cluster. Note that most of his near neighbors are Scot. Perhaps 3000 years ago, when the Celts were in central Europe, one of them decided to settle down with a Slavic bride instead of heading on to Scotland?

    http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...ting_marker=42
    Another cousin. He is actually the most 'normal' for Poland, because he is R1a1, the quintessential Slavic haplogroup. (Actually, Slavic in Europe, Indic in Asia.) But notice that he is quite far away from everyone else. This is actually quite typical of Polish R1a1, indicating its lack of migration. (In other words, the Slavs have been roughly where they are now for thousands of years.)

    http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...ting_marker=30
    This is an adoptive cousin, biologically of Czech patrilineal ancestry. His testing is not yet complete, but he is clearly E3b1, indicating a migration north out of the Balkans. Notice that his nearest neighbors, at both 54 and 37 markers, are Irish. I can only suspect that the Romans drafted Balkan men to work at forts in the British Isles, and that later some of the remaining Balkan men traveled north as far as the Czech Republic.

    Wow! Thank you for taking the time to share all these results with us. Your extended-family results are somewhat similar to the results of our Bukovina Hungarian project. I somehow imagined they would have some common DNA patterns, but instead we have (7) R1a, (4) I1b, (3) R1b, (2) J2, (2) E3b, and one each of G and I1c.

    I'm looking forward to more results from Eastern Europe, as it's now under-represented in the FTDNA database.

    Beth

    Leave a comment:


  • SaintManx
    replied
    Congrats!

    Originally posted by lgmayka
    Chuckle. If they were all patrilineal relatives, that would be a strange family indeed. But no, each represents a different patrilineal line:

    Myself
    My mother's brother
    My mother's half-brother's daughter's son
    My mother's mother's sister's son
    My mother's mother's sister's daughter's son
    My mother's brother's adopted son

    But except for the adoptive cousin, we are all of essentially 100% southern Polish ancestry, often from the same village.

    By the way, two of my cousins, along with a Scot, have set a new record for genetic distance within R1a1: a GD of 50 at 67 markers.

    http://www.ysearch.org/research_gene...C47G5H%2CBPF29
    I figured inasmuch but one has to ask the basic questions first!

    You and I are a distance of 46 at 67, I guess scientifically speaking we are not first cousins, what a drag.

    Leave a comment:


  • lgmayka
    replied
    Originally posted by SaintManx
    Perhaps I am not understanding you correctly but are these people all direct patrilineal relatives of yours? I am wondering how they are all in different haplogroups, as I am having some difficulty in matching up my scores to anyone in my project.
    Chuckle. If they were all patrilineal relatives, that would be a strange family indeed. But no, each represents a different patrilineal line:

    Myself
    My mother's brother
    My mother's half-brother's daughter's son
    My mother's mother's sister's son
    My mother's mother's sister's daughter's son
    My mother's brother's adopted son

    But except for the adoptive cousin, we are all of essentially 100% southern Polish ancestry, often from the same village.

    By the way, two of my cousins, along with a Scot, have set a new record for genetic distance within R1a1: a GD of 50 at 67 markers.

    http://www.ysearch.org/research_gene...C47G5H%2CBPF29
    Last edited by lgmayka; 12 January 2007, 09:48 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • VanLaar
    replied
    Originally posted by SaintManx
    Hello!

    Perhaps I am not understanding you correctly but are these people all direct patrilineal relatives of yours? I am wondering how they are all in different haplogroups, as I am having some difficulty in matching up my scores to anyone in my project.

    Cheers for any response!
    Offcourse they aren't. With all these relatives he is probably separated from them by one or two females. For example, this uncle is probably a brother of his mother. His cousin could be a son of his paternal aunt. And as he stated, the last one was adopted.

    Leave a comment:


  • SaintManx
    replied
    Originally posted by lgmayka
    Here are examples of my results:

    http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...ting_marker=31
    These are my own results. As you can see, I am I1b. My patrilineal ancestor came north from the Balkans; and the rather short genetic distances between us indicate that this dispersal occurred perhaps within the last 2000 years.

    http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...ting_marker=41
    These are my uncle's results. He is G2, which has its center in the Caucasus. No other testee is very close to him. Perhaps his patrilineal ancestor was a Sarmatian who mixed into the Slavic population in the 5th century in order to avoid the invading Huns.

    http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...ting_marker=51
    This is one of my cousins. He is R1b1c, and is arguably in the R1b47Scot cluster. Note that most of his near neighbors are Scot. Perhaps 3000 years ago, when the Celts were in central Europe, one of them decided to settle down with a Slavic bride instead of heading on to Scotland?

    http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...ting_marker=42
    Another cousin. He is actually the most 'normal' for Poland, because he is R1a1, the quintessential Slavic haplogroup. (Actually, Slavic in Europe, Indic in Asia.) But notice that he is quite far away from everyone else. This is actually quite typical of Polish R1a1, indicating its lack of migration. (In other words, the Slavs have been roughly where they are now for thousands of years.)

    http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...ting_marker=30
    This is an adoptive cousin, biologically of Czech patrilineal ancestry. His testing is not yet complete, but he is clearly E3b1, indicating a migration north out of the Balkans. Notice that his nearest neighbors, at both 54 and 37 markers, are Irish. I can only suspect that the Romans drafted Balkan men to work at forts in the British Isles, and that later some of the remaining Balkan men traveled north as far as the Czech Republic.
    Hello!

    Perhaps I am not understanding you correctly but are these people all direct patrilineal relatives of yours? I am wondering how they are all in different haplogroups, as I am having some difficulty in matching up my scores to anyone in my project.

    Cheers for any response!

    Leave a comment:


  • vineviz
    replied
    I think a lot depends on the level of interest you have in history.

    One important (and unexpected) benefits to me of DNA testing, apart from the true genealogical ramifications, has been the the fact that the process of trying to figure out how my distant ancestors finally ended up in Italy.

    I've learned a lot about migrations, invasions, kingdoms, etc. that I never knew before. Knowing that someone with my DNA was involved in certain historical events has made them seem somehow more real.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    [QUOTE=lgmayka]I find it very interesting to learn where my (and my relatives' and friends') patrilineal ancestors came from, where they went, and how they got to where we are today. I have paid for, and gotten most of the results already from, full 67-marker tests of all these men. In general, the results have been interesting enough to be worth my money.

    The one possible exception was one friend who turned out not to be at all interested in the matter--he didn't even have time to hear much about his results.

    Thank you for responding to my message. Actually I do find all this very interesting and I love the history of the movement of people and ancient anthropology in general. I was one of the first in line when the NGS Genographic project was announced and received my results quite some time ago. That was a good idea to have your relatives tested also, that's something I may think about doing to liven things up. I guess I felt I had hit a wall and didn't really learn much from my results.

    Cromag

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Pleroma
    Deciding to do or not to do additional testing is really a personal choice, depending on just how interested you are in pursuing this hobby, (and how much 'hobby money' you may have in the kitty.) It is a bit of a gamble in that you may find out something interesting or nothing at all.

    This is a link to "Kerchner Surname Y-DNA Project Success Stories," (I am not a part of this project.) I think it's a good example of how DNA genealogical testing can become relevant. It's shows the progress of the testing and how it became an effective genealogical tool in this particular case.

    http://www.kerchner.com/success.htm
    Thanks for your input, and a brief reading of your Kerchner success was very interesting. I'm part of surname study also, and I had forgotten that is a good reason to go further with the testing, though our surname project kind of tanked and hasn't been kept up to date.

    Thank you for your response,
    Cromag

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by bob_chasm
    I agree there is little additional benefit, if any, in obtaining further testing at this time. I may decide to seek additional haplogroup testing, possibly some time next year when more sub clades have been discovered and we have a better map of who went where and when. I assume it was not a big surprize learning you had European ancestry? My family legend claimed that we immigrated to India from the Middle East. In appearance I am a typical Indian. So you can imagine it was a nice surprize to learn that I belong to J haplogroup, like most men of Middle Eastern origin. As far as value goes, dont you feel closer to all humanity when you learnt that you have helped to end racism by demonstrating that your European paternal ancestors are more closely paternally related to American Indians, Central Asians and a majority of people of India than Jews, Mediterraneans and other Europeans belonging to J and I haplogroup?

    regards,


    bob
    True there was no surprise with having European ancestry, I'm typical Scots-Irish from the south so that was pretty much a given. Your discovery of your true roots is wonderful and makes it all worthwhile. Yes, based on the reading I've done around this project it really dawns on you how inter-related we humans all are, and that most all "regular" people seek harmony and a life with opportunities, safety and compassion. Thanks for your response.

    Cromag

    Leave a comment:


  • lgmayka
    replied
    Originally posted by Cromag
    I was so excited to take part in NGS testing and took the test very early in the life cycle of the project, but see little value in finding out that I'm part of the largest haplogroup in Europe (R1B1), and may have ancestry from Frisia based on my DYS 390/391 23/11 values.
    I find it very interesting to learn where my (and my relatives' and friends') patrilineal ancestors came from, where they went, and how they got to where we are today. I have paid for, and gotten most of the results already from, full 67-marker tests of all these men. In general, the results have been interesting enough to be worth my money.

    The one possible exception was one friend who turned out not to be at all interested in the matter--he didn't even have time to hear much about his results.

    Here are examples of my results:

    http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...ting_marker=31
    These are my own results. As you can see, I am I1b. My patrilineal ancestor came north from the Balkans; and the rather short genetic distances between us indicate that this dispersal occurred perhaps within the last 2000 years.

    http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...ting_marker=41
    These are my uncle's results. He is G2, which has its center in the Caucasus. No other testee is very close to him. Perhaps his patrilineal ancestor was a Sarmatian who mixed into the Slavic population in the 5th century in order to avoid the invading Huns.

    http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...ting_marker=51
    This is one of my cousins. He is R1b1c, and is arguably in the R1b47Scot cluster. Note that most of his near neighbors are Scot. Perhaps 3000 years ago, when the Celts were in central Europe, one of them decided to settle down with a Slavic bride instead of heading on to Scotland?

    http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...ting_marker=42
    Another cousin. He is actually the most 'normal' for Poland, because he is R1a1, the quintessential Slavic haplogroup. (Actually, Slavic in Europe, Indic in Asia.) But notice that he is quite far away from everyone else. This is actually quite typical of Polish R1a1, indicating its lack of migration. (In other words, the Slavs have been roughly where they are now for thousands of years.)

    http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...ting_marker=30
    This is an adoptive cousin, biologically of Czech patrilineal ancestry. His testing is not yet complete, but he is clearly E3b1, indicating a migration north out of the Balkans. Notice that his nearest neighbors, at both 54 and 37 markers, are Irish. I can only suspect that the Romans drafted Balkan men to work at forts in the British Isles, and that later some of the remaining Balkan men traveled north as far as the Czech Republic.
    Last edited by lgmayka; 10 January 2007, 06:53 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • JC399
    replied
    Originally posted by Cromag
    I've only done the 12 marker test but am reluctant to shell out more money to find out, well...nothing.
    I think it really depends on what you want to know. For genealogy, I think you really need the 37 marker test. The 12 marker test isn't enough. I have found many distant cousins with proven genealogy by comparing my DNA both here and with other companies. If you don't care about genealogy maybe you are better off with what you have. I went with the 67 marker test because it was a gift. I'm still trying to decide if getting 67 markers was worth it but I think the 37 marker test was a very wise decision for me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pleroma
    replied
    Deciding to do or not to do additional testing is really a personal choice, depending on just how interested you are in pursuing this hobby, (and how much 'hobby money' you may have in the kitty.) It is a bit of a gamble in that you may find out something interesting or nothing at all.

    This is a link to "Kerchner Surname Y-DNA Project Success Stories," (I am not a part of this project.) I think it's a good example of how DNA genealogical testing can become relevant. It's shows the progress of the testing and how it became an effective genealogical tool in this particular case.

    http://www.kerchner.com/success.htm

    Leave a comment:


  • bob_chasm
    replied
    Value

    Originally posted by Cromag
    I respect the science of genetics, but given the widespread dispersion of peoples and constant mixing of the gene pool over the millennia, is there really anything to be discerned at present by all this genetic testing unless one has very good and fairly recent (say, less than 500 yrs past) genealogical evidence from which to deduce familial possibilities based on similar test results with another living human?

    I was so excited to take part in NGS testing and took the test very early in the life cycle of the project, but see little value in finding out that I'm part of the largest haplogroup in Europe (R1B1), and may have ancestry from Frisia based on my DYS 390/391 23/11 values. I've only done the 12 marker test but am reluctant to shell out more money to find out, well...nothing.

    Perhaps I'm ignorant, if you think so please point me in the direction of commentary/dialogue/literature that might help to enlighten.

    Respectfully,
    Cromag
    I agree there is little additional benefit, if any, in obtaining further testing at this time. I may decide to seek additional haplogroup testing, possibly some time next year when more sub clades have been discovered and we have a better map of who went where and when. I assume it was not a big surprize learning you had European ancestry? My family legend claimed that we immigrated to India from the Middle East. In appearance I am a typical Indian. So you can imagine it was a nice surprize to learn that I belong to J haplogroup, like most men of Middle Eastern origin. As far as value goes, dont you feel closer to all humanity when you learnt that you have helped to end racism by demonstrating that your European paternal ancestors are more closely paternally related to American Indians, Central Asians and a majority of people of India than Jews, Mediterraneans and other Europeans belonging to J and I haplogroup?

    regards,


    bob
    Last edited by bob_chasm; 10 January 2007, 06:07 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest started a topic Skeptical of additional testing

    Skeptical of additional testing

    I respect the science of genetics, but given the widespread dispersion of peoples and constant mixing of the gene pool over the millennia, is there really anything to be discerned at present by all this genetic testing unless one has very good and fairly recent (say, less than 500 yrs past) genealogical evidence from which to deduce familial possibilities based on similar test results with another living human?

    I was so excited to take part in NGS testing and took the test very early in the life cycle of the project, but see little value in finding out that I'm part of the largest haplogroup in Europe (R1B1), and may have ancestry from Frisia based on my DYS 390/391 23/11 values. I've only done the 12 marker test but am reluctant to shell out more money to find out, well...nothing.

    Perhaps I'm ignorant, if you think so please point me in the direction of commentary/dialogue/literature that might help to enlighten.

    Respectfully,
    Cromag
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