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Native American CDIB & Admixture

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  • tomcat
    replied
    Thank you Donald Locke for posting the above.

    Leave a comment:


  • Donald Locke
    replied
    My grand father has always "claimed" he was part Cherokee. This last December my father went to visit my grand father and while there did find a box full of old family photos and old records. My grand father was born in 1920.

    In that box was 2 pages that were photo copied out of my grand fathers grand mothers family bible, she was a Myrick. The 2 bible pages contained 2 differnt family's which isn't all that common really. Normally you would only find the 1 family named in a family bible.
    On the 1 page was all the Locke family information, on the 2nd page was a Payne family. I knew through the research that she was a Payne descendant, but I hadn't followed up on that lineage.

    After posting some queries on the net about who's Payne family it was named in the Locke family bible, several Payne descendants emailed me telling me that is their family and where in the world did I get that information!
    Well? It came from my grand fathers grand mother's family bible who is a Payne descendant! This Payne family has told me they are Cherokee, though they are like the many who can not prove it using the paper records yet.
    But this Payne family was 100% sure they were Cherokee even if they can't prove it on paper.

    Payne married Wray
    Wray married Myrick
    Myrick married Locke
    So it is a pretty significant genetic distance to my Cherokee lineage if the Payne family is who they say they are.
    I am the 4th great grand son of Susan Eliza Jane Payne b. May 16, 1823 daughter of Benedict Burruss Payne & Lucy Powell Thompson.

    While I can't prove my Cherokee descendancy through the Payne's, the Payne's themselves have convinced me they are who they say they are.
    Like my Creek brother tells me, he knows who I am, I know who I am, so really if my blood kin folk won't open closed hearts, it's their loss.
    My Creek brother and I only share the same surname, yet are not blood related, yet he has gotten to know who I am and now calls me in public, his brother and that has much meaning for me!

    It isn't always about money, it is about knowing one's self. Much like my daughter in law who is 1/4 Apache, doesn't really know her family's heritage, she just knows she is 1/4 Apache. And like my niece who is 1/2 hispanic, didn't get to meet me and my family until she was 20 years old.
    We all missed out on knowing her during her childhood, yet she contacted me last year and we got to know each other. She is my blood and I wouldn't ever deny her the family heritage she rightfully deserves to know.

    I will do for the girls what their parents didn't do, trace their family's heritage and share that knowledge with them so they both have a family history to pass down to her children and grand children.

    It isn't about money for me, it isn't about one's skin color for me. It is about my family's heritage, good, bad or whatever. It is a heritage that will be passed down, which wasn't done for me. I had to learn it on my own because it wasn't passed down on to me.
    I may never be able to prove the Payne's were Cherokee, that is besides the point. I did learn from them who they are and they have learned some about who I am. And it is thanks to our common ancestor who gave it some thought that she should record her family history in her family bible that brought our 2 family's back together.

    They are my cousins regardless of skin color, and we were all seeking the same thing, the truth and history behind our ancestors.
    It's a pride and honor thing my friend, it is our way of finding our ancestors and sharing our knowledge that wasn't always passed down as it should have been.
    We aren't all wanna be NDN's, we are seeking a family history so we can then pass it on to the next generation. For me, I have some sort of confirmation on the story my grand father has been telling me my whole life.
    Yes there does appear to be a Cherokee heritage from his grand mothers side of the family. It is just nice to know 1 old family story does appear to have some truth behind it. I don't believe even my grand father would have met the percentage requirements to even try to become a tribal member anyway even if we could prove the Payne's were Cherokee.

    Ader Leone Myrick my 2nd great grand mother and it was she who was breaking the taboo of documenting her Payne family in the family bible.
    She felt it was important enough to write it down then, and we are darn glad she did!
    Because Ader was a grand daughter to Susan Eliza Jane Payne, one would have to question her motive as to why she would document her grand mothers side of the family in her family bible.
    I am convinced because Ader knew her grand mother was part Cherokee.
    It just wasn't a common thing for one to record the extended family in one's family bible, let alone the grand mothers side of the family. The family bible was a here and now recording of her own family, her children's names and dates.

    So I have to believe that because she took the time to record the Payne names in to her bible, that she had to have known at that time that her Payne family were of Cherokee descent, other wise it doesn't make any since to me why she would have recorded that information.
    It just wasn't common to record other family members in to one's family bible like she did. And I have seen several family bibles over the years, what Ader did wasn't a common thing at all.

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  • Maria_W
    replied
    Blood requirements.

    Since this thread was about Certified Degree of Indian Blood and tribal membership. Heres a list of some Native tribes and their blood requirement for tribal membership:

    1. Absentee Shawnee: 1/4 Absentee Shawnee blood.
    2. Apache: 1/8 total Native blood.
    3. Blackfoot: 1/4 total Native blood.
    4. Caddo: 1/8 Caddo Blood.
    5. Cherokee of Oklahoma :Any degree decendent of a Tribal member.
    6. Cherokee of North Carolina: 1/16 Eastern Cherokee blood.
    7. Cherokee-Shawnee: Any degree decendent of a Tribal member.
    8. Cheyenne-Arapaho: 1/4 degree Cheyenne-Arapaho with at least 1 enrolled parent.
    9. Chickasaw: Any degree decendent of a Tribal member.
    10. Choctaw of Mississippi: 1/2 Mississippi Choctaw blood.
    11. Choctaw of Oklahoma: Any degree decendent of a tribal member.

    Will add more later. Maria

    Leave a comment:


  • Bob Swinea
    replied
    Originally posted by tomcat
    I guess this means that all us DNA-Indians ought to give it up.

    Yep tomkat ... makes me want to hang up my feathers and tomahawk and slip on some real European shoes and not these mocs... hahahaha
    My Best to All,
    Bob

    Leave a comment:


  • Bob Swinea
    replied
    Originally posted by haplogroupc
    I think the poster was asking about the spiritual significance of taking DNA tests, if it would be spiritually wrong somehow. So far no one has answered his question.

    But there are definitely cases out there, particularly in smaller tribes, in which DNA tests have caused problems for members. And some tribes now want to require DNA testing. In one example, the article "Native American DNA Tests: What are the Risks to Tribes?" says, "A few federally-recognized tribes, such as the Mashantucket Pequot of Connecticut, have considered using Native American DNA tests for enrollment purposes" (in order to keep people from joining the tribe).
    OK. I will speak spiritually for myself as one Indian who still practices an Old Way. It is never wrong to seek the Truth; no matter where it may be found. The heart of the Way is learning Nature's lessons and learing to live within nature as a part of the larger Web of Life. As Chief Seattle [Duwamish] was said to have taught, we are simply a part of the web of life, we didn't create it. DNA is the very heart of nature as I see it and it has its own truth to teach. The larger question is can we, spiritual beings having a human experience, accept the truth as it is taught to us? This is my opinion. You don't have to agree with it.
    Peace to All,
    Bob

    Leave a comment:


  • msc_44
    replied
    There are articles about Native Americans who have taken DNA tests and who have gotten little or no percentage of Native American on their results. In addition, their mtDNA haplogroups and Y-DNA haplogroups are not Native American. Many Natives refuse to take the tests for fear that their results will be used against them, as a tool to remove them from the tribe.


    How can they tell who is Native American anyway when they havent test but a couple of tribes to get A, B, C, D, & X Haplogroups and Q, P, & F Haplogroups when there are thousands of Native American tribes untested and you have all these Europeans getting far more Native American than the Native Americans now is this some sort of government thing to get rid of Native Americans and take over what they have with the Casinos and to get out of their debt to them because its definitely leaning that way

    Leave a comment:


  • tomcat
    replied
    Originally posted by Bob Swinea
    [chuckle] Hi Gang,
    Just for the record I AM a REAL Indian and I have spoken my heart to this small thread. Part of the problem has always been when we speak do others ever really listen to what we say? Been going on a long time. Just my two beads worth.

    Bob

    I guess this means that all us DNA-Indians ought to give it up.

    Leave a comment:


  • haplogroupc
    replied
    Originally posted by Bob Swinea
    [chuckle] Hi Gang,
    Just for the record I AM a REAL Indian and I have spoken my heart to this small thread. Part of the problem has always been when we speak do others ever really listen to what we say? Been going on a long time. Just my two beads worth.

    Bob
    I think the poster was asking about the spiritual significance of taking DNA tests, if it would be spiritually wrong somehow. So far no one has answered his question.

    But there are definitely cases out there, particularly in smaller tribes, in which DNA tests have caused problems for members. And some tribes now want to require DNA testing. In one example, the article "Native American DNA Tests: What are the Risks to Tribes?" says, "A few federally-recognized tribes, such as the Mashantucket Pequot of Connecticut, have considered using Native American DNA tests for enrollment purposes" (in order to keep people from joining the tribe).

    Leave a comment:


  • Bob Swinea
    replied
    Originally posted by big chief
    I would like to comment about "Indian DNA". There is one thing that has to be remembered here. The U.S government was trying to make "Less" Indians not more by creating these "ROLLS". My family was on one of the earlier "rolls" The 1835 emigration roll. see signer #11 May 6 1828 from "mouse creek Tenn." He went to Arkansas and saw all the problems they were having out there and decided to come back to the mountains of east Tn. ie blount county. Because he left does that mean he wasn't an Indian any more??? what a joke. All of his children and grandchildren filed for membership with the Guion Miller, Dawes and Baker rolls and were denied. Boy i wish that there was DNA testing back then. We have 5 people's Y DNA tests coming up as Q3 M3. I believe that is Huge Proof. I have my Grandfathers Divorce from 1914 because he was a half-breed cherokee. It was illegal for him to marry. But in 1924 When he gave his proof in a "white court" that he was a half breed to Mr. Fred Baker, He was still denied. The U.S government was in the buisness of getting rid of as many american indians as they could. Just as the Cherokee are doing today by getting rid of the freedmen. I am not a conspirasy advocate at all but there were some nasty things done on Both sides of the rolls. It was and always will continue to be about money. Not "who your daddy was". BIG CHIEF.... and the dna to prove it lmao!!!!!

    Amen and Amen

    Bob

    Leave a comment:


  • Bob Swinea
    replied
    Originally posted by haplogroupc
    There are articles about Native Americans who have taken DNA tests and who have gotten little or no percentage of Native American on their results. In addition, their mtDNA haplogroups and Y-DNA haplogroups are not Native American. Many Natives refuse to take the tests for fear that their results will be used against them, as a tool to remove them from the tribe.

    [chuckle] Hi Gang,
    Just for the record I AM a REAL Indian and I have spoken my heart to this small thread. Part of the problem has always been when we speak do others ever really listen to what we say? Been going on a long time. Just my two beads worth.

    Bob

    Leave a comment:


  • Maria_W
    replied
    Oh forgot..

    I meant to add that I do have alot of female spouses that are missing names during the colonial time frame. They are born in Delaware, Maine, Massachsettes, Pennsylvania, Virginia, New Jersey. This would add to native tribes back in 1600's but not more recent. I do have more recent ancestors who are missing also. This could account for the 10% recent results I got back!

    Maria

    Leave a comment:


  • Maria_W
    replied
    Still have Native anyway....

    Rainbow:

    In my case, even with out the Ancestry By DNA 10% Native American results, I still have proven Native American (Potowomecke) ancestry back to the 1600's in Virginia through my Waugh and Elkins line. So does the 10% reflect this 1600's heritage. I am hearing that it can't go back that far. So if it doesn't then where is the 10% from? Well, its either more recent (which adds a new tribe(s)) or its a mistake. I suppose I could retest but at this point, Im not really that bothered over it, becasue I have Native heritage even without it. Hope every one finds their heritage!

    Maria

    Leave a comment:


  • rainbow
    replied
    My top two matches from dnatribes are portugal & mozambique. Makes no sense. i had emailed them asking if they mixed my swabs with someone elses, they said no.

    Leave a comment:


  • rainbow
    replied
    I have no family history of American Indian ancestry. I'm a white American who wondered if she had some trace "Mongolian or Hun" dna from her half Czech father. I took the ancestrybydna test. I assumed/expected 100% european result, and anticipated/hoped for a 2% or 3 % east asian result, at most, if any. My ancestry by dna test came back 83% European, 17% Native American. I then tested with DNATRIBES, and have NO american indian matches, but I match italy, greece, & turkey.


    AncestryByDna 'Native American' may or MAY NOT BE actual American Indian, but may instead be Central asian markers that are also found in Europeans, including those whose ancestors are from areas where the Romans were. I'm 3/4 British, 1/4 Czech. Romans occupied Britain for centuries.

    Any white American that is getting a Native American result on their ABD should double check that and get tested by DNATRIBES.

    I also suspect DNATRIBES accuracy. They also matched me to Maori! DNATRIBES, are you kidding me!
    Last edited by rainbow; 8 April 2007, 04:08 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • big chief
    Guest replied
    Cherokee

    I would like to comment about "Indian DNA". There is one thing that has to be remembered here. The U.S government was trying to make "Less" Indians not more by creating these "ROLLS". My family was on one of the earlier "rolls" The 1835 emigration roll. see signer #11 May 6 1828 from "mouse creek Tenn." He went to Arkansas and saw all the problems they were having out there and decided to come back to the mountains of east Tn. ie blount county. Because he left does that mean he wasn't an Indian any more??? what a joke. All of his children and grandchildren filed for membership with the Guion Miller, Dawes and Baker rolls and were denied. Boy i wish that there was DNA testing back then. We have 5 people's Y DNA tests coming up as Q3 M3. I believe that is Huge Proof. I have my Grandfathers Divorce from 1914 because he was a half-breed cherokee. It was illegal for him to marry. But in 1924 When he gave his proof in a "white court" that he was a half breed to Mr. Fred Baker, He was still denied. The U.S government was in the buisness of getting rid of as many american indians as they could. Just as the Cherokee are doing today by getting rid of the freedmen. I am not a conspirasy advocate at all but there were some nasty things done on Both sides of the rolls. It was and always will continue to be about money. Not "who your daddy was". BIG CHIEF.... and the dna to prove it lmao!!!!!

    Leave a comment:

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