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Native American CDIB & Admixture

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  • #16
    Originally posted by tomcat
    Can't see any impediment to 'someone' setting-up a registry for members of the Native American Diaspora based on reasonable proof of Native Ancestry not acceptable to the recognized tribes. With a large enough membership, political recognition might be ... inevitable

    The American Me'tis Aboriginal Association has done this following the Canadian model for recognizing Mixed Blood Peoples.
    Bob

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    • #17
      I think that there may still be a need for some sort of cultural organization. The Metis organizations are political and have claim to some special rights. In order to qualify you must:

      -be of some Aboriginal ancestry
      -identify him/herself as Métis
      -be recognized or accepted as Métis by a/the Métis community.

      There are many people who want to embrace their Native ancestry as an essential part of who they are and restore some of the knowledge and beliefs of their ancestors, but don't want the politics or any special rights.

      Also it's a shame that so many Native tribes seem to be missing the amazing opportunity to teach something to the people who come looking for their ancestors. A lot of the time these ancestors were not just forgotten but were torn from the family history. It would be doing them honour to put them back into the hearts of their descendants.

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      • #18
        I wholeheartedly agree with you pleroma on this issue.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by darroll
          haplogroupc,

          Good answer.... And probably more truth in your comments than we know.
          There has been a lot of marriages to “white girls”.
          But.... Their Y-DNA should survive.
          We still have to respect their beliefs, and all religions beliefs. I'm hoping their spiritual leaders will allow then to be DNA tested. DNA is a powerful tool if we can learn to use it right. dc
          Unfortunately, Native Y-DNA hasn't survived as much as Native mtDNA has. There were just a lot more European men who married Native women than Native men who married European women. There are many Native men who have European Y-DNA even though their recent ancestors have been Native American. This is a big reason why using Y-DNA as a tool to prove Native ancestry wouldn't be fair.

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          • #20
            Hi.....

            Originally posted by teddy1066
            A friend of mine recently took an admixture test which confirmed she had 7% Native American heritage. Her genealogy indicates that a ggggrandmother was Cherokee.

            Does anyone know if the DNA Admixture tests can be provided as proof towards getting a Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood (CDIB) issued by the Bureau of Indian Affairs?

            Does anyone know the rules in terms of who the government decides is a Native American?

            Look forward to hearing from you all,

            Ted

            If she has the DNA test plus the proven genealogy - I don't see why they would not give her a (CDIB) - I think others are right in saying that the tribes
            probably give more weight to the genealogical records. The admixture tests
            are only a prediction based tool right now.

            Has any siblings or other relatives also taken the admixture test and been
            predicted to have Native American blood?

            In my case I tested 85 percent European 11 percent Native American
            and 4 percent Sub Saharan African

            and my half brother tested 95 percent European 4 percent Sub Saharan
            African and 1 percent Native American


            I descend from probably more than one Native American line - But
            haven't got absolute proof yet.

            One family I descend from is the Bunch family of NC, Tenn, KY
            which is my grandmothers last name.

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            • #21
              Whether or not you may become the member of a particular Indian nation is decided by the nation itself, not by the federal government. Each nation has different rules. If you qualify and become a member, you get an ID issued by that nation, and that makes you "card-carrying." The feds issue a certification of degree of Indian blood, but that doesn't make you a member of any particular nation, as far as I know. Bob can probably weigh in on this better than I can.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by N4321
                Whether or not you may become the member of a particular Indian nation is decided by the nation itself, not by the federal government. Each nation has different rules. If you qualify and become a member, you get an ID issued by that nation, and that makes you "card-carrying." The feds issue a certification of degree of Indian blood, but that doesn't make you a member of any particular nation, as far as I know. Bob can probably weigh in on this better than I can.
                [chuckle] Thanks for your confidence.... Tribal membership; real vs unreal vs wannabe Indians is a very multi-faceted [and sometimes emotional] discussion that is also very hotly debated across Indian Country today. Overarching all this is Federal Law regarding treatment of Indian Tribes and their individual sovereignty with regards the US Govt. These laws were established during the Trail of Tears era of the Cherokee Nation as it involved several Supreme Court decisions handed down as a result of law suits filed by the Cherokee Nation against the US Govt to prevent the forced removal of our People in 1828. The Supreme Court defined Indian Nations as "domestic depentent nations" in their relationship with the US. Additionally the Supremes said that the US had no legal authority to remove the Cherokees or any other Indian Tribe from their ancestral Homelands. President Andrew Jackson said to the Supreme Court Chief Justice Marshall at the time, "The Court has made its decision. Let them send their own army to prevent the Removal." Soon, almost the entire US Army turned up in the Southeast to remove the Indian Nations to Oklahoma. Yet before this, President Jackson has forced through his Indian Removal Act of 1830 making it, in effect, illegal to be an Indian east of the Mississippi River. No wonder that even until today the Cherokee word for "the Devil" is a derivitave of the word "Jackson". Hope this helps some.
                Peace,
                Bob

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by N4321
                  Whether or not you may become the member of a particular Indian nation is decided by the nation itself, not by the federal government. Each nation has different rules. If you qualify and become a member, you get an ID issued by that nation, and that makes you "card-carrying." The feds issue a certification of degree of Indian blood, but that doesn't make you a member of any particular nation, as far as I know. Bob can probably weigh in on this better than I can.
                  I rather doubt USGov. would issue a CDIB absent tribal recognition as that would mean USGov. has the authority to decide who-is-and-who-aint Indian.

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                  • #24
                    Bottom Line who is and who ain't Indian

                    I have heard alot of mumbo jumbo in this thread about who is Indian and who isn't, bottom line is if you can't prove that you had a direct ancestor listed on the DAWES then legally your not Indian / Native American. In other words if you can prove that one of your direct ancestors was listed on the DAWES then you can become a citizen of that tribe, the way it is done is that you apply by filling out an application to the particular tribe that your ancestor belonged to, Cherokee, Creek, etc, you must submit birth certificates for yourself and everyone else in your direct line all the way back to the DAWES. Now here is the tough part, not everyone had a birth certificate so in palce of it you must supply proof that the person existed, most tribes will except death certificates in place of birth certificates . You must supply absolute proof of your direct line all the way back to your ancestor that was listed on the DAWES, you will be advised by the person at the tribal citizenship office as to what is accepted and what is not.
                    Once you have been given citizenship to one of the five major tribes then you can apply for a CDIB Card, [stands for Certified Degree of Indian Blood] which is actually the Governments way of legally declaring you a Native American by Blood and declaring your Blood Quantum as ?/? %, which is based on the degree of Native American that your ancestor was listed as on the DAWES.
                    This sounds easy but believe me you can run into some real difficult issues, like slight errors on documents, which are not ignored but must be corrected or you must supply a dozen more documents explaining the error of one document. As in mine my mother signed my birth certificate with only her middle and last name and not her full name so I had to show additional documentation to thier satifaction . Errors such as incorrect middle initials, mis-spellings and such all have to be corrected to the satisifaction of the citizenship board before you can become a citizen of any Federally recognized Tribe.

                    Bottom, Bottom line is that you are not legally an Indian unless you can prove that your direct ancestor was listed on the DAWES, this applies to everyone, it doesn't matter how much genealogical data you have showing that you are the 5th great - granddaughter or great- grandson of Pocahontas, if Pocahontas's name isn't on the DAWES then you are SOL .

                    As you can see by my explaination DNA doesn't enter the picture, I hope this helps to clear up the issue .

                    ------------------
                    Jay1

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Jay1

                      Bottom, Bottom line is that you are not legally an Indian unless you can prove that your direct ancestor was listed on the DAWES, this applies to everyone, it doesn't matter how much genealogical data you have showing that you are the 5th great - granddaughter or great- grandson of Pocahontas, if Pocahontas's name isn't on the DAWES then you are SOL .
                      What did you mean by SOL?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by haplogroupc
                        What did you mean by SOL?

                        So Out of Luck = SOL

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Jay1
                          So Out of Luck = SOL
                          Yep, I figured it meant something like that. And that's so true. If your ancestors weren't written on the rolls, you can't become recognized by a tribe. And another problem is that many do have ancestors on the rolls but they just don't know their names because they weren't passed down and they can't find them.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by haplogroupc
                            Yep, I figured it meant something like that. And that's so true. If your ancestors weren't written on the rolls, you can't become recognized by a tribe. And another problem is that many do have ancestors on the rolls but they just don't know their names because they weren't passed down and they can't find them.
                            Its not that difficult to look up your ancestors on the DAWES but you must have thier name, the problem is that most researchers are unfamiliar with researching Native American Ancestry, for instance they may try to locate a great-great grandmother by her maiden name when she may have been listed by her married name, another is that they think they must know the Indian name of thier ancestor, this is not true, the DAWES usually listed both Indian and English names. If you think that you might have an ancestor listed on the DAWES you really should try to research them as an Indian's DAWES file [Jacket] can give you alot of genealogical information about not only them but also thier parents, siblings and thier children, for the small price of, I believe it is still $17.00 from the National Archives. You will get a map showing where thier Land allotment was located, a copy of thier application which is very informative, tells where and when they were born and when thier death occured, who they were married to and names of children, names of thier parents and blood quantum, etc.
                            If any of you think you may have an ancestor listed on the DAWES, but don't know how to go about looking them up, I would be more than happy to give you the info on how to get started .

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Jay1
                              If you think that you might have an ancestor listed on the DAWES you really should try to research them as an Indian's DAWES file [Jacket] can give you alot of genealogical information about not only them but also thier parents, siblings and thier children, for the small price of, I believe it is still $17.00 from the National Archives. You will get a map showing where thier Land allotment was located, a copy of thier application which is very informative, tells where and when they were born and when thier death occured, who they were married to and names of children, names of thier parents and blood quantum, etc.
                              Is the Dawes file that you described the same thing as the Dawes Final Rolls of the Five Civilized Tribes? There's a searchable database on the internet:

                              http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/dawes.php

                              Is there more to the list than what's on the searchable database?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by haplogroupc
                                Is the Dawes file that you described the same thing as the Dawes Final Rolls of the Five Civilized Tribes? There's a searchable database on the internet:

                                http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/dawes.php

                                Is there more to the list than what's on the searchable database?

                                Yes it is also searchable at the NARA site [National Archives]as well and some even have the enrollment cards attached but not all .

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