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  • #31
    mapped skulls

    Way back in the earliest 1950's, I received an atlas for Christmas. I think it was printed in England. Anyway, I recall it had a map of Europe showing various skull types. Even back then I found it very interesting. (I don't know whhatever became of the book.)

    I recall that within Germany, there were sharp differences in skull shapes. I would guess that means there were migrations and settlement patterns of differing peoples, in prehistory.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by PDHOTLEN
      Way back in the earliest 1950's, I received an atlas for Christmas. I think it was printed in England. Anyway, I recall it had a map of Europe showing various skull types. Even back then I found it very interesting. (I don't know whhatever became of the book.)

      I recall that within Germany, there were sharp differences in skull shapes. I would guess that means there were migrations and settlement patterns of differing peoples, in prehistory.
      This just goes to show that the whole concept of race, skull types, etc. doesn't have much scientific basis. Someone has already pointed out in this thread that it's autosomal DNA that is responsible for hair and eye color and other physical attributes.

      The scientific consensus these days is that there is more differentiation within "races" than between "races." What you note above only confirms that.

      Mike

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      • #33
        Skull fetish

        The early obsession with skulls had to do with the now completely discredited "science" called Phrenology.

        Anyone with a deep interest in self diagnosis can find the information on this website:

        http://pages.britishlibrary.net/phrenology/organs.html

        But if anyone discovers a secret propensity on his/her lumpy head don't blame me.

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        • #34
          A new heart drug was discovered a few years ago that worked well on blacks but not on whites or hispanics. It was almost buried by PC.

          Scot

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          • #35
            Originally posted by scotdna
            A new heart drug was discovered a few years ago that worked well on blacks but not on whites or hispanics. It was almost buried by PC.

            Scot
            Attributing a PC motivation to those, like myself, who doubt any great racial basis of differences between humans is not always correct. I pointed out that most scientists these days either deny that races exist or downplay the idea of race to a great extent. That's a fact, not PC.

            Yes, there are differences between what most people regard as "race" concerning certain medical conditions and predispositions. A lot of that is environmental, cultural and socioeconomic, perhaps some of it is biologically based. For instance, sickle cell anemia occurs among African-Americans "Due to the above phenomenon, the illness is still prevalent, especially among people with recent ancestry in malaria-stricken areas, such as Africa, the Mediterranean, India and the Middle East. In fact, sickle-cell anemia is the most common genetic disorder among African Americans; about 1 in 12 is a carrier." (quote is from Wikipedia, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sickle_...nemia#Genetics). Another example, related to the question of malaria, is thalassemia - "Being a carrier of the disease may confer a degree of protection against malaria, and is quite common among people from Italian or Greek origin, and also in some African and Indian regions." (another quote from Wikipedia, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalassemia) The point is that if Africans or Italians or Greeks did not come from areas with a malaria problem, none of these racial/ethnic groups would show a higher prevalence of the diseases than any other ethnic group. It's environmentally triggered and THEN passed along genetically, but the original cause is environmental.

            Mike

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            • #36
              Mike,
              In the case I mentioned the difference had something do to with sodium uptake. That was probably caused by environment. As was hemochromatosis, which is an incredibly common disorder among Celts.

              My problem is that PC often gets in the way of truth. In medicine that can have deadly results.

              Scot

              Comment


              • #37
                addition to my prev msg

                After thinking a little more about that old british atlas, I now recall that it referred to the Cephalic Index. And it was illustrating a sedentary Europe from before the war.

                The Cephalic Index is, according to the dictionary, the ratio of the width of the skull to its length and multiplied by 100. (Or did I get that turned around?) The concept is out of Physical Anthropology (out dated?).

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by PDHOTLEN
                  After thinking a little more about that old british atlas, I now recall that it referred to the Cephalic Index. And it was illustrating a sedentary Europe from before the war.

                  The Cephalic Index is, according to the dictionary, the ratio of the width of the skull to its length and multiplied by 100. (Or did I get that turned around?) The concept is out of Physical Anthropology (out dated?).
                  Someone had posted this on another thread... http://dienekes.angeltowns.net/calc/anthro/

                  I tried it and came up with 0% probability of being caucasian even though my roots are Scot and I'm almost translucent white. Unfortunately, there's always been a decent amount of quackery (and worse) in physical anthropology.

                  Scot

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                  • #39
                    Phrenology and Skull Volume

                    One side of the Phrenology research tried to link skull volume (measured by pouring shot into empty skulls from various ethnic groups) and intelligence. The thought was - the bigger the skull, the bigger the brain, the more intelligent the owner. More recent research shows that brain size has more to do with body size than with intelligence.

                    So what did these scientists "find"?

                    The Germans found that German brain size was larger than French brain size. Interestingly, the French found the opposite.

                    Women had smaller brains - considered reason enough to not admit them to universities and prestigious scientific forums.

                    Curiously, the African samples were heavily weighted with "Pygmy" skulls and the Native American samples were heavily weighted with Eskimo skulls.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Romany777
                      One side of the Phrenology research tried to link skull volume (measured by pouring shot into empty skulls from various ethnic groups) and intelligence. The thought was - the bigger the skull, the bigger the brain, the more intelligent the owner. More recent research shows that brain size has more to do with body size than with intelligence.

                      So what did these scientists "find"?

                      The Germans found that German brain size was larger than French brain size. Interestingly, the French found the opposite.

                      Women had smaller brains - considered reason enough to not admit them to universities and prestigious scientific forums.

                      Curiously, the African samples were heavily weighted with "Pygmy" skulls and the Native American samples were heavily weighted with Eskimo skulls.

                      Brain size really does not have as much to do with intellegence as we once thought, but in some ways it still does. Intellegence really depends on how our brains are structured or wired and what parts of the brain are well developed. Look at Homo Florensis (those little guys they discovered on Flores island in Indonesia in 2003) who is thought to have made fairly complex Upper Paleolithic type tools and hunted elephants that were much larger than they were with complex strategys and cooperative hunting. They had tiny brains except for the dorsomedial prefrontal cortex which was about the same size as modern humans. This part of the brain has to do with self awareness. Homo Floresnsis had tiny brains overall but still had fairly advanced and complex behaviours because their brains were structured in a way that allowed them to do so.



                      Y-DNA: J2a*

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                      • #41
                        too bad

                        Originally posted by PDHOTLEN
                        Way back in the earliest 1950's, I received an atlas for Christmas. I think it was printed in England. Anyway, I recall it had a map of Europe showing various skull types. Even back then I found it very interesting. (I don't know whhatever became of the book.)

                        I recall that within Germany, there were sharp differences in skull shapes. I would guess that means there were migrations and settlement patterns of differing peoples, in prehistory.
                        Yeah that would have been an interesting book to keep. Especially showing the common differences within Europe. That term or word "differences" is in many ways what this whole thing is about, and then grouping them in some way to identify a commonality at various levels. I distinctly remember my ex wife's relatives being from Nordic countries, and I could "tell" their facial features were much sharper than I normally would see elsewhere in Europe.

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                        • #42
                          That's what the mental limits of PC can cause...

                          Originally posted by scotdna
                          A new heart drug was discovered a few years ago that worked well on blacks but not on whites or hispanics. It was almost buried by PC.

                          Scot
                          That's one of my biggest concerns about PC. Maybe initially the intention was good, however the results can turn out bad if there's misinterpretation.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Arch Yeomans
                            Hmmm...

                            Was surfing the Internet trying to figure out the genetic makeup of the common human skull types. I wonder how much truth there is in the info provided or how accurate the skull racial analyses are. I think the Nazi's perhaps tried doing something like this to identify a "pure Aryan race", or perhaps establish what was in their minds and belief system a pure race. Maybe they were on to something in terms of the analysis of typing the various skulls found worldwide, it's unfortunate they invested into all this technology and research for nefarious reasons. Perhaps causing people to shun away from the subject matter for the fear of being labeled a racist.
                            Humanoids are stupid that way I suppose.

                            Here's the interesting site I found:

                            http://www.sitesled.com/members/raci.../subraces.html
                            Speaking of facial features being sharply different in Germany, I find this holds true in Britain as well.
                            By the way, I always wondered what Mick Jagger's facial features were? I would guess nordic, but which sub group?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Racist or not the truth eventually comes out. Racist is a trouble makers term, if you are ugly, your ugly.
                              If you are stupid I won’t go into that. If I fail in life, you’re a racist, where the heck did this thinking come from. Maybe from another word ending in “ism”.
                              The Germans had most of the smart people during the war years. Poor Hitler was left out or we would be speaking German.
                              The size of the head could hold more brains.
                              The smart people now are the people from India. I do not know the size of their heads so maybe it’s the education they are serious about getting. American kids had better wise up or your career will be cleaning out the mud from a cotton jenny, or riding your skate board. Merry Christmas (Not happy Holiday tree, we can have one of those in June after returning from a holiday). d

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                              • #45
                                I believe we have a Troika. It was just Archie Bunker and Homer Simpson.
                                You gotta love em.

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