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"Ancient"Ashkenazi-markers in non-Jewish.

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  • "Ancient"Ashkenazi-markers in non-Jewish.

    Hello,

    At step 4(8/12) on the Haplo-list I have several Ashkenazi-markers:
    R1b Germany (1)
    R1b1 Belarus (1)
    R1b1 Lithuania(3)
    R1b1 Russia (1)
    R1b1c Poland (1)
    R1b1c Ukraine(1)
    (+2 Syria-Arab)

    Please,some interpretation...!
    Nas.

  • #2
    Shared Markers

    y-R1b1 is suppossedly the match to these mtK people that I am a member of. I didn't know they were Ashkenazi. Does that mean I am Jewish? Why didn't anybody tell me? Anyway in terms of genes,people all over have some genes in common with others,for instance mt519 is a mediterranean trait ,I think,and I saw people in Asian haplogroups with that number as well as some North Europeans(on mitosearch.com). And that is without them matching in any other way.So it is possible that you could have genes from another group without having all the genes of that group. I don't know all of the science behind it,but I saw it exists.

    Comment


    • #3
      Ashkenazi and R1B1

      I think Scotland's males have a lot of R1B1 what does that make them? Askenazi ? What is Ashkenazi? I thought Scot's were Celts-maybe Celt's are Ashkenazi...maybe

      Comment


      • #4
        "Ancient Ashkenazi"

        Originally posted by Jambalaia32
        I think Scotland's males have a lot of R1B1 what does that make them? Askenazi ? What is Ashkenazi? I thought Scot's were Celts-maybe Celt's are Ashkenazi...maybe
        Hello,
        Question is"How old are those matches or markers in Europe"?
        I think that a lot of Europeans have them.
        If my ancestors originated in Spain,how was it that they got linked to the Ashkenazi in Germany?
        Or...Ashkenazi-match was Paleo!
        That's the question!
        Thanks.
        Nas

        Comment


        • #5
          Ashkenazi-Match.

          Originally posted by nas
          Hello,
          Question is"How old are those matches or markers in Europe"?
          I think that a lot of Europeans have them.
          If my ancestors originated in Spain,how was it that they got linked to the Ashkenazi in Germany?
          Or...Ashkenazi-match was Paleo!
          That's the question!
          Thanks.
          Nas
          ...could it be connected to Native American,for I have that mysterious Athabascan-match at 9/12?
          Nas

          Comment


          • #6
            nas:

            4 out of 12 is a huge difference. we're talking thousands and thousands of years. In the calculators provided by FTDNA, a difference of 2 out of 12 gives a common ancestor on average separated by 60 (!!) generations. The calculator doesn't even provide a 4 marker number, but if you double that - just to make the point- you get 120 generations. If you assume 25 years per generation, you can do the math. So paleo or neolithic connection, if at all.

            Indeed, R1b is very non-Ashkenazi. Presumably, an Ashkenazi R1b suggests a European who somehow became a Jew, rather than viceversa. Other posts in this forum have talked about the distribution of haplogroups among Ashkenazi. While most do show the typical middle eastern haplogroups, there is a minority who shows typical European R1a and R1b, suggesting a limited male admixture with the European populations.

            cacio

            Comment


            • #7
              Ashkenazi-Matches.

              Originally posted by cacio
              nas:

              4 out of 12 is a huge difference. we're talking thousands and thousands of years. In the calculators provided by FTDNA, a difference of 2 out of 12 gives a common ancestor on average separated by 60 (!!) generations. The calculator doesn't even provide a 4 marker number, but if you double that - just to make the point- you get 120 generations. If you assume 25 years per generation, you can do the math. So paleo or neolithic connection, if at all.

              Indeed, R1b is very non-Ashkenazi. Presumably, an Ashkenazi R1b suggests a European who somehow became a Jew, rather than viceversa. Other posts in this forum have talked about the distribution of haplogroups among Ashkenazi. While most do show the typical middle eastern haplogroups, there is a minority who shows typical European R1a and R1b, suggesting a limited male admixture with the European populations.

              cacio
              Thank you Cacio,
              I really appreciate!
              This confirms my personal analysis.
              Thanks.
              Nas

              Comment


              • #8
                Relationship with Caggeggi and Chag Haggeulah - R1b1c6

                I've been trying to find out the hebrew origins of the name 'Caggeggi' in Sicily.

                I thought someone from this forum might be able help me. This could help support R1b's with Hebrew origins.

                I have found a relationship with the hagag or haghagh with Caggeggi.

                Do you think there is a strong relationship with the origins?

                Could I be a descendant of Levi and of his tribe?

                Ge’ulah-HaGeulah-Haggeulah means Redemption / Salvation?

                Hag means Pilgrim?

                What I found:

                Chagag hag, meaning, "to feast a feast," is often translated "you shall keep a feast," and is used in: Exodus 12:14 (Passover), Exodus 23:14 (Three Pilgrimage Feasts), Leviticus 23:39, 41 (Tabernacles), Numbers 29:12 (Tabernacles), Nahum 1:15, Zechariah 14:16-19 (Tabernacles).

                Thanks Heaps,
                John

                Comment


                • #9
                  john:

                  funny, I have a surname that sounds vaguely similar (Cagetti). However, there's probably no relation. Caggegi is Sicilian, whereas mine is found in Tuscany.

                  Anyway, for Caggegi and its variants (Gaggegi etc.) I have seen what you know already, a possible origin from the hajj, the muslim pilgrimage to Mecca. Nothing about mine. Btw, I noticed you're an European R1b, while I am a more mediterranean middle eastern L. (I also noticed that you have many entries on ysearch, and I think there may be a problem with the 389-2 you have put in).

                  cacio

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A Hebrew-Christian Haggadah

                    Hag, Hagg, Hajj all mean Pilgrim and all come from the biblical book of ‘Exodus’. Caggeggi comes from the Hebrew-Christian origin of the Passover Haggadah.

                    A Hebrew-Christian Haggadah (a Caggeggi in Sicilian, a Hag, a Feast, and or Pilgrim in Arabic/Hebrew) performed the Order of the Worship Service for the Seder Dinner - performed a sacrificial offering on the eve of the Passover festival)

                    A haggadah is a collection of Jewish prayers and readings written to accompany the Passover ‘Seder’ performed by Hebrew-Christian Hag/Hagigah, a ritual meal eaten on the eve of the Passover festival. The ritual meal was formalized during the 2nd century, in which Philosophical debate was fortified by food and wine (The Last Supper - Holy Thursday).

                    The literal meaning of the Hebrew word ‘haggadah’ is a ‘narration’ or ‘telling’. It refers to a command in the biblical book of ‘Exodus’, requiring Jews to “tell your son on that day: it is because of that which the Lord did for me when I came forth out of Egypt”.

                    Note:

                    Hagigah (al. Chagigah) - is a festival offerings - a sacrifice offered on the eve of Pilgrim Festivals.

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