Mediterranean Basin Y DNA Structure

[cacio]

Dave:

I am always skeptical of unsubstantiated claims. Why didn't they say exactly what they tested? Then one can evaluate their claim. As we discussed with Andrew, "proof by intimidation" is not very convincing.
I suspect 16223 is not a necessary condition, I think we discussed this with vraatyah in a previous post. I know there are of M's without it (eg Andrew's wife, if I recall). And vraatyah pointed out that in the case of mtDNA one must look at the entire motif. The lack of one indicative mutation cannot be taken in isolation. Backmutations do happen. So if the sequence looks like something, except for one locus, then may be it is what it looks like.

In your case, where would M* come from? Europe has M1 (which you are not), may be a tiny M5 (but you are not gypsy). M* is found is south-east Asia, but you don't seem to have any connection there. But America has C.

Regarding M1, they don't have samples because M1 has its largest frequencies in Ethiopia and North Africa (from where hardly anybody has tested), and from there it went to Spain and Italy, but in small numbers. Plus, Spain and Italy have not been tested in decent numbers either. There is little or no M1 in the UK.

I guess the problem will be solved completely only if you sequence the entire mtdna (which is now possible for $350...)

cacio

[Andrew M]

I noticed quite scattered results on mitosearch for M1 http://www.mitosearch.org/haplosearc...&submit=Search
but all of my wife's matches are Spain/North Africa. The names on her contact list all seem Spanish or Portugese (first and last names). I guess each has a story to tell of how they got to America or the UK and it probably started from Latin America. I suppose that for uncommon haplotypes, a low resolution survey is enough to get a pretty clear picture of origins. Someone from ftDNA looked at RAO's as quite authoritative. If my wife were Gypsy/Roma (M5) she would have expected eastern European matches.

Here's proof that my wife (M*) has exact numbers with (M1) from Spain http://www.mitosearch.org/search_res...dard&uid=RDNT2

Coincidentally I'm 2 markers off someone who currently lists the very next county in Spain as his RAO.

[jaken24]

Re: Another Source for Discussion

Hello forum memebers,
I just looked me up in the Capelli 2005 and found I am a 45. In the interest of brevity I won't list all the matches that 45 entails. Here is another study y'all might find interesting; if you haven't seen it already, in this study I am a 12. The Reivers Project study is a little more 'vague' with their 'origin' of the haplotypes and used a couple of different markers but it is interesting reading.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb..../haplo_e3b.htm

Happy Hunting
Jeffrey D. Stewart
South Carolina

[iberiandave]

cacio,
I could have the entire mtdna sequenced. This is an option that would solve this once and for all.... right? I will say this about the stories from the family lore is that my great grandmother was into tarot, spirit world contact, tea leaves.. yadda yadda. She was well known in the mission(s.f) for tarot/palm readings and it was passed onto two out of three daughters who now no longer practice. I know these are phenotype traits but my great grandmom, grandmom, and her boys.. (my uncles) and myself look eurasian. I have been assumed as persian or any of the STANS almost every time that ? comes up, " so where does your family come from?" or "where were you born?.. " do you speak farsi?" Good call I do need to get the entire mtdna sequenced; I guess I just needed the push. thanks cacio-

[robe3b]

Hello forum memebers,
I just looked me up in the Capelli 2005 and found I am a 45. In the interest of brevity I won't list all the matches that 45 entails. Here is another study y'all might find interesting; if you haven't seen it already, in this study I am a 12. The Reivers Project study is a little more 'vague' with their 'origin' of the haplotypes and used a couple of different markers but it is interesting reading.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb..../haplo_e3b.htm

Happy Hunting
Jeffrey D. Stewart
South Carolina

Jaken24,

I read this study about a year ago, but I felt frustrated because I did not match any of the 20 haplotypes. I am very close to haplotype # 5, but I have 15 repeats at DYS 19, instead of 14.

Roberto

[Andrew M]

Same problem with me. The study also included a couple of fast-moving markers--385a and 385b. The slow-moving 391 causes me problems. For a while I had a theory that 391 at 11 meant a more northerly component as opposed to the "normal" 10. However when more data came in, that idea was smashed.

Lately I have come to view the site as a rather prematurely enthusiastic attempt to sound authoritative. There simply isn't enough information out there to be so detailed with (even recent) historical movements.

More and more I've come to appreciate the phrase Dr. Greenspan used after viewing my results: "definate maybe." I'll add the phrase to it that polititians have to memorize: "these things take time."

[jaken24]

Opposite findings

Andrew and robe3b,
Well it certainly had to happen, my 385a/b=15/17 tosses me outa nearly every study I've seen; so if I'm in, obviously everyone else is out.

Jeffrey D. Stewart
South Carolina
E3b1 M78+
H3