My first post. Post results-more confused than ever!

[SaintManx]

I have received the results of my 37 marker y-dna tests and am more confused than ever before.

First is my group project which called for DIRECT patrilineal descendents of a certain immigrant ancestor of which I thought I was one. In a twelve marker study my closest match posted a two marker difference, the remainder were three or more. I was told that the group had matched each other almost perfectly, with the exception of myself. Is this plausible if I too were a part of the paper trail? Or, is it more plausible that perhaps some renegade DNA entered my direct descendants lineage unknowingly(ie a child born out of wedlock but raised as one of their own)? I wonder this because the other members match each other but I do not come close. I have no exact matches in the data base and my one step mutations are so widely varied from Andalusia,Italy,France, Isle of Man, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, England, Chinese Muslim, Syria, Greece, Denmark,Norway. If one were to work with ratio concentrations, my highest percentage of one step mutation matches would be Italy,France,Syria(1 out of 1 persons), and Ireland- but the highest number of matches would be in England/France-but the differential would be greater due to the higher numbers in the data base. The percentages get higher in Italy and France with the two step mutations.

Next is the haplogroups. I tried the scoring on the Whitathey charts and returned a 64 for R1b1, a 50 for Q, and a 25 for J2 all seemingly substantial numbers- can I draw anything conclusive from these scores?

Cheers for the Headsup!

Rosario Castronovo
NYC
YSearch/9epze
Family tree kit # 72248

[MMaddi]

Looking at your marker values (for instance, 393=24, 459a-b=9-10, your 464a-d results), I would say that you're clearly an R1b. Searching for matches at 25 markers on ysearch.org, you have 10 with 4 step mutations from you. So you're not the usual "plain vanilla" R1b that has dozens of close matches.

Take a look at the haplotype comparison between you and the 10 at http://tinyurl.com/yh5qfx The markers that stand out as unusual are 393=12 and 385a=12 (most R1b's have 11 there).

I'm not sure what to say beyond that, but when you get the remainder of your 37 markers, it should be interesting.

Mike Maddi

[SaintManx]

Mike-

Thank you for the response. I have uploaded the remaining of the 37 markers to y search just now.

Where would I find the information necessary to understanding what each of the markers indicate, because right now you're speaking urdu to me! Lol.

Cheers.

Rosario

[MMaddi]

OK. I rechecked your haplotype for comparison at 37 markers. At that level of comparison you don't have anybody with a genetic distance (GD) of 6 or less from you. The search function at ysearch only allows you to search for matches up to a GD of 6. So you don't have anybody that close to you at 37 markers, which is not that unusual. You might have a few if I was able to set the GD to 8 or 10.

As far as what the markers mean, there are certain markers that have characteristic results for each haplogroup. That's how Whit Athey's predictor works to come up with an estimate for haplogroup. So I was just looking at some results you had for markers that have characteristic results for R1b, which I cited in my other posting. With some experience you get to know what to look at, especially if it's your haplogroup. (I am R1b too.)

You might be interested to compare your marker results to what's called the R1b modal haplotype. I think this is based on the R1b Project at FTDNA, which has over 700 members now. (By the way, you can join that project and it's free.) Basically, this haplotype shows you what are the predominant results for R1b's at each marker. You are a GD of 13, at 37 markers, from that haplotype - not the closest and not the farthest. Here's the link to that comparison - http://www.ysearch.org/research_comp...9EPZE%2C+55gu9

Another trick you can use is to create a new ysearch account for yourself just using the slowest mutating markers and then do a comparison with the database. The idea is that matching with someone on the slowest mutating markers will give you a better idea of your deep ancestry, since you're leaving out the faster mutating markers that are only useful when you trying to sort out people who share a common ancestor in the last 5 or 10 generations. Take a look at my ysearch accounts with the 23 slowest mutating markers (http://tinyurl.com/wjc9o) and with the 16 slowest mutating markers (http://tinyurl.com/vn6dn) to see which those markers are.

Mike

[vineviz]

I have received the results of my 37 marker y-dna tests and am more confused than ever before.

First is my group project which called for DIRECT patrilineal descendents of a certain immigrant ancestor of which I thought I was one. In a twelve marker study my closest match posted a two marker difference, the remainder were three or more. I was told that the group had matched each other almost perfectly, with the exception of myself. Is this plausible if I too were a part of the paper trail?

If the project has public results, can you post a link to them for us?

[SaintManx]

The group project does not have a public forum, rather, I am going by what the PA has informed of. I do not know if my matches are varied enough from the group to consider whether or not we are a part of the same descendancy.

Cheers.

[lgmayka]

Here are all the Ysearch entries that come within a genetic distance of 9 from you, at 37 markers:

http://www.ysearch.org/search_results.asp?uid=9epze&min_markers=37&mismatch_type=sliding&mismatches_sliding_starting_marker=28

You were not expecting to match the Longacre family of Sweden?

At 25 markers, these entries come within 4 steps of you:

http://www.ysearch.org/search_results.asp?uid=9epze&min_markers=25&mismatch_type=absolute&mismatches_max=4

The Hargrave family of England?

[SaintManx]

What is the difference between a purported family member,bearing the same surname not even scoring near you, and say a person from asia scoring one away from you? Does this score assume a relationship between the two? Amongst the 4000+ "closest" matches, none were from my group project. I do not know if any of them uploaded their results, but they do bear the same surname.

Is a haplo score of 62 R1b1-50 for Q considered to be conclusive? Throw in the 25 for J2 and my head begins to swirl.....

[lgmayka]

What is the difference between a purported family member,bearing the same surname not even scoring near you, and say a person from asia scoring one away from you? Does this score assume a relationship between the two? Amongst the 4000+ "closest" matches, none were from my group project. I do not know if any of them uploaded their results, but they do bear the same surname.

Is a haplo score of 62 R1b1-50 for Q considered to be conclusive? Throw in the 25 for J2 and my head begins to swirl.....

On Ysearch, the genetic distance of your nearest neighbor (at 37 markers) is 9. Any common ancestor would almost certainly be from before the stabilization of surnames anyway.

On the other hand, a genetic distance of 1 at 37 markers is so close as to be strong evidence of a fairly recent relationship. If the two people have different surnames, one might suspect some kind of Non-Paternal Event (NPE) such as an adoption.

Your predictor score of R1b=62, Q=50 is almost conclusive in itself, but when combined with your list of nearest neighbors (who are all R1b), the conclusion is obvious.

[vineviz]

The group project does not have a public forum, rather, I am going by what the PA has informed of. I do not know if my matches are varied enough from the group to consider whether or not we are a part of the same descendancy.

That's disappointing. You would be in a lot better position to understand the results if you could see them.

I'm assuming the surname is not Castronovo, since yours is the only record with that surname in ySearch. If you know the ysearch ID of any other group members (it sounds like you do not), that would be a start.

Generally speaking, anything other than a total mismatch at 12 markers can only be considered inconclusive. A 10/12 match could represent quite close relatives or completely unrelated people: there is no way to say which is the case with any confidence if more markers are not compared.