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  • African American DNA Tribes / ABD 2.5 Results

    Greetings!

    I'm hope this starts a discussion on the impact of admixture on the results that African Americans may or may not be seeing in autosomal DNA testing. So please jump in and share your experience.

    Gram's 2004 Ancestry by DNA 2.5 results showed 82% Sub-Saharan African and 18% European. mtDNA results are L3 (probably L3e3).

    In August I received her results from DNA Tribes which were very unusual.

    Part B Native Pop. Match from "338 Native Pops that have experienced minimal movement and admixture in modern history" and Part C Global Pop. Match from "511 global pops, including native peoples as well as Diaspora groups that have expanded from their homelands and sometimes admixed with others in recent history." B Value / C Value (If one value is listed, they are the same):

    Upper Caste (Andhra Pradesh, India) - 49.8
    Lower Middle Caste (Andhra Pradesh, India) - 38.4
    Upper Middle Caste (Andhra Pradesh, India) - 37.2
    Mongol (Ximeng, Inner Mongolia) - 17.1
    Chueta (Spain) - 10.8 / 10.9
    Adi Pasi Tribal (Arunachal Prades, India) - 9.7
    Italian - 6.6
    Roma (Greece) - 0 / 6.6
    Vietnamese (Hanoi, Vietnam) - 5.2
    Milan, Italy - 4.8
    Chinese (Chengdu, China) - 4.7
    Tokyo, Japan - 4.7
    Kazak (NW Xinjiang, China) - 4.1
    Naqu Tibetan - 4.0
    Eastern Anatolia, Turkey - 3.5
    Eastern China - 3.4
    Mongol (Wumeng, Inner Mongolia) - 3.3
    Liguria, Italy - 3.3
    El-Minia, Egypt - 2.6
    Han (Min Nan, China) - 2.5
    Tibetan (Lhasa) - 2.4 / 0

    Part D World Region Matches "These regions are the product of long term patterns of interactions between peoples within major geographic and cultural zones over hundreds and often thousands of years." Really "weak" numbers:

    Sub-Saharan African - Less than 0.45
    North African - 0.3
    Arabian - Less than 0.15
    Tibetan - looks to be about 0.09
    Asia Minor - looks to be about 0.06
    Mestizo - about 0.05
    Western European - less than 0.05
    North Indian - less than 0.05
    Mediterranean - less than 0.05
    East Asian - less than 0.05
    Southeast Asian - less than 0.05
    Indian - less than 0.05
    Areas listed with 0.0 Values: Eastern European, South Amerindian, Australian, Northeast Asian, North Amerindian, Alaskan, and Polnesian.

    I have been using Omnipop and RCMP Databases to look at the allelic values to see if I can learn any more about what populations may have contributed to her genetic make up.

  • #2
    There are several articles on this. Perhaps DNATribes does not your tribe in their data base as was suggested in an earlier post or perhaps your line had a diaspora into the middle eastern region and India from Africa?

    Afro-European Genetic Admixture in the United States, Sweet, Frank W
    One possible explanation for the high present incidence of sub-Saharan DNA in White Americans (1/3 have 2-20% African admixture) is a relatively high but unnoticed rate of families passing through the color line from Black to White during the 18th and 19th centuries. The triracial isolate communities of the Southeast may have served as a buffer zone or halfway house facilitating such color-line permeability.

    The mean African admixture among White Americans is low—roughly 0.7 percent African and 99.3 percent European admixture.16 To put this in perspective, this would have been the result if every member of the U.S. White endogamous group alive today had a single ancestor of one hundred percent African genetic admixture seven generations ago (around the year 1850). Of course, African alleles are not distributed evenly. Seventy percent of White Americans (like 5.5 percent of Blacks) have no detectable African genetic admixture at all. Among the thirty percent of Whites with African genetic admixture, the admixture ratio averages to about 2.3 percent, the equivalent of having a single ancestor of one hundred percent African genetic admixture from around the year 1880.17 Black Americans, on the other hand, have significant European admixture (averaging about 75 percent African and 25 percent European)(10% in the south and 50% in the north, GKH).

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Sonia,
      I am glad you posted. Like your Gram as I mentioned before, I too have unusual results from DNA Tribes. They are as follows. I expected results such as the one the tribes website posted as an example for African Americans. It seems that Egypt is as close to Africa as I can get.

      Part B: Medium resoluton native population match
      Tujia (Hunan, China)13.0
      Yemeni 10.7
      Java, Indonesia 9.3
      Napalese 9.2
      El-Minia, Egypt 8.5
      Teli (Central India) 4.5
      Japanese 4.3
      Egyptian Berber (Siwa, Egypt) 3.6
      Estonia 3.6
      Sicilian (Italy) 3.2
      Japanese 3.2
      Agharia (Central India) 3.1
      Chueta (Spain) 3.0
      Flemish 2.9
      Han (Changsha, China) 2.8
      Turkish (Aegean Region) 2.7
      Turkish (Eastern Mediterranean Region) 2.6
      North Bavarian (Germany) 2.5
      Ireland 2.3
      Tokyo, Japon 2.1

      Part C. Mediam Rosolution Global Population Match
      Malay 13.3
      General Asian 13.3
      Tujia (Hunan, China)13.0
      Yenemi 10.7
      Java, Indonesia 9.3
      Napalese 9.2
      El-Minia, Egypt 8.5
      East Timorese (Northern Territory, Australia) 7.7
      Teli (Central India) 4.5
      Japanese 4.3
      Agharia (Central India) 3.1
      Chueta (Spain) 3.0
      Flemish 2.9
      Colombian 2.8
      Han (Changsha, CHina) 2.8

      According to my Ancestrybydna I am give or take 32% Sub-S and 32% European.
      PBJ

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sonia
        ...I have been using Omnipop and RCMP Databases to look at the allelic values to see if I can learn any more about what populations may have contributed to her genetic make up.
        Here's another db with African data on which you can research individual alleles -

        http://www.uni-duesseldorf.de/WWW/Me.../database/html

        Comment


        • #5
          Salisian match

          Hi
          See my post on other forums but I definitely fit in all..I have a quite strong Salish match..(Very strong it says) as strong as my possible Norman French are which actually looks like Portugal..

          What can I post for interpretation.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for the article info

            Originally posted by GregKiroKH
            There are several articles on this. Perhaps DNATribes does not your tribe in their data base as was suggested in an earlier post or perhaps your line had a diaspora into the middle eastern region and India from Africa?
            Hi Gregory,

            Thanks for posting the excerpt from the article. If you find any others, please let me know. I am hoping that DNA Tribes updates their sample base for Africa sometime. The middle eastern idea is interesting as when I ran the markers individually in Omnipop a few North African matches seemed to align with one allele.

            Comment


            • #7
              Unusual Results

              Originally posted by Kathleen Carrow
              Hi
              See my post on other forums but I definitely fit in all..I have a quite strong Salish match..(Very strong it says) as strong as my possible Norman French are which actually looks like Portugal..

              What can I post for interpretation.
              Hi Kathleen,

              I did see your results on the other thread and I wonder if your results are another case of convergence (noted in one of Tom's responses). When you're able to start manipulating Omnipop I look forward to seeing how your individual markers turn out. One of my first thoughts was, how is it your known history has no African American connections, but you've got 2 matches to populations and Gram had none. I just don't get it. I'm still holding out for DNA Tribes to add more African populations (many of the 39 SSA pops are in southern Africa, not where the slave trade was most active) and perhaps Native American groups from the SE US (where Gram's rumored to have had a connection) before doing an update.

              When I look at Gram's markers individually, the Asian and East Asian are still strong, but then I also see Sub-Saharan African related populations and Native American populations showing certain values for certain markers in greater frequencies. Welcome to the great DNA puzzle!

              Comment


              • #8
                ABDNA 2.5 Results - Next step?

                I've been reading posts by Sonia, PBJ and Tomcat. My results are L3e1b consisting of mtDNA: 16145A, 16223T, 16256T, 16325-, 16327T and 16330C. Some of these mutations I've not found any data for. I just received ABDNA 2.5 results that reveal 78% Sub-saharan and 22% Indo-European. Is there a source to look at data for the DNA tested by ABDNA? Of course I want to learn all I can but I too am concerned about what databases will offer the best “variety” so to speak. At this juncture I’m not certain if I should look at DNA Tribes or another source. I think there is still much to learn regarding L3e1b but also wonder if there are European databases that may offer more insight for that percentage of my results? Are there new developments/databases? Should I hold for now?

                Thanks guys.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mjohn2
                  ... I just received ABDNA 2.5 results that reveal 78% Sub-saharan and 22% Indo-European. Is there a source to look at data for the DNA tested by ABDNA? ...

                  Sorry, there is no way to further research the SNP's employed by ABDNA. The SNP's of your seq.pdf are for illustrative purposes only and ABDNA sends the same seq.pdf to everyone. The SNP's given in the genotype.pdf are entirely in ABDNA nomenclature. All ABDNA's SNP's and data are proprietary.

                  You can research the STR's employed by DNATribes.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I called AbDNA, and they said that I could not research my data since they are going to keep my results. So, I tested with DNA Tribes to get my CODIS markers. The results were similar. Maybe, AbDNA examines the data like the FBI. So, AbDNA groupings lump by race instead of geographic origins based on Omnipop results. DNA tribes show a larger Mediterranean influence as suggested by my mtDNA results. Ordering Penta D&E and D19S433 and D2S1338 should be interesting. Still, it is nice to have AbDNA results.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Additional Testing?

                      Originally posted by mjohn2
                      I've been reading posts by Sonia, PBJ and Tomcat. My results are L3e1b consisting of mtDNA: 16145A, 16223T, 16256T, 16325-, 16327T and 16330C. Some of these mutations I've not found any data for. I just received ABDNA 2.5 results that reveal 78% Sub-saharan and 22% Indo-European. Is there a source to look at data for the DNA tested by ABDNA? Of course I want to learn all I can but I too am concerned about what databases will offer the best “variety” so to speak. At this juncture I’m not certain if I should look at DNA Tribes or another source. I think there is still much to learn regarding L3e1b but also wonder if there are European databases that may offer more insight for that percentage of my results? Are there new developments/databases? Should I hold for now?

                      Thanks guys.
                      H MJohn,
                      One of the reasons I ordered the DNA Tribes test now for my Gram is because she's 101. While some people of African descent have gotten some very strong correlations for autosomal testing, others like PBJ & Gram have about 20% Indo-European admixture & the results seem odd (but like Tomcat pointed out, you can look at the allele values from Tribes, but not ABD). I'm going to hold off upgrading Gram's Tribes test until they add more samples from Sub-Saharan African Groups (of the 39 groups listed many were Northern Africa or Southern Africa - less likely to have had an influence during the transatlantic slave trade) or data for some Native American groups from the SE United States.

                      You didn't mention if you were male or female. If you are a male, or if you have a whole brother (or your father), it could be that the y-chromosome might be European in origin and that could give you some insight into your European ancestry.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It is good to document the migration patterns of a surname and family members. Individual alleles should match with the certain patterns after some time period.

                        The history and legends of Scotland confirm the existence of "purely Black people." We see one of them in the person of Kenneth the Niger. During the tenth century Kenneth the Niger ruled over three provinces in the Scottish Highlands.

                        The historical and literary traditions of Wales reflect similar beliefs. According to Gwyn Jones (perhaps the world's leading authority on the subject), to the Welsh chroniclers, "The Danes coming in by way of England and the Norwegians by way of Ireland were pretty well all black: Black Gentiles, Black Norsemen, Black Host."
                        http://www.nok-benin.co.uk/prev-articles/royal_8.htm

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          ABD 2.5 Results

                          Originally posted by Sonia
                          H MJohn,
                          One of the reasons I ordered the DNA Tribes test now for my Gram is because she's 101. While some people of African descent have gotten some very strong correlations for autosomal testing, others like PBJ & Gram have about 20% Indo-European admixture & the results seem odd (but like Tomcat pointed out, you can look at the allele values from Tribes, but not ABD). I'm going to hold off upgrading Gram's Tribes test until they add more samples from Sub-Saharan African Groups (of the 39 groups listed many were Northern Africa or Southern Africa - less likely to have had an influence during the transatlantic slave trade) or data for some Native American groups from the SE United States.

                          You didn't mention if you were male or female. If you are a male, or if you have a whole brother (or your father), it could be that the y-chromosome might be European in origin and that could give you some insight into your European ancestry.

                          Thanks for the info. I can see why you are considering waiting. In response to your question I'm female with no siblings. Dad is deceased. My only living male relatives are one maternal first cousin and a maternal uncle. I've not approached them because I don't see how their Y-DNA would benefit me.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Few Clues About African Ancestry To Be Found In Mitochondrial DNA

                            http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1012185120.htm

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Some Clues?

                              Few Clues About African Ancestry To Be Found In Mitochondrial DNA

                              http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1012185120.htm

                              snip... Ely et al.'s results show that more than half of the African American HSV-1 sequences were found in many different sub-Saharan ethnic groups. Forty percent of the African American HSV-1 sequences did not match any sequences in the database and fewer than 10% were an exact match to a sequence from a single African ethnic group.

                              Article: African-American mitochondrial DNAs often match mtDNAs found in multiple African ethnic groups Bert Ely, Jamie L Wilson, Fatimah Jackson and Bruce A Jackson BMC Biology 2006, in press ]
                              Just imagine what they would say about the value of autosomal DNA results Perhaps I'm a glass half full person, but I find it to be far from "few clues"

                              >50% mtDNA sequences were found in many different groups. How does this match with any known history of / time period for the relationship between the groups with matching DNA? I don't mind that my mutations have been found in more than one ethnic group. What I would like to know is the frequency with which it was found in the different groups.

                              40% didn't match any sequences in the database: Another article mentioned that they only had about 3,000 samples in the database - pretty small. Also, there are areas in Africa from which samples have not been taken at all. If the lack of matches continues after everywhere has been sampled, then I'll bet some folks would be scratching their heads about mutation rates and < 400 years of Africans in America. One point that this group of researchers is trying to make is that we should be careful if a company tells us that our mtDNA is from a specific group. In my case, African Ancestry was very careful to state that "an exact match was found among the Yoruba living in Nigeria today."

                              Finally, there's the lucky 10% who must have very specific mutations that have only been identified in specific populations in Africa.

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