Tribes scores

[Noaide]

Thanks Noaide. It does seem that for admixture more markers are better and better all 'round.

I think my earliest analysis of your alleles was wrong here is the correct one:

0.022 NA, 0.105 ASIAN 0.786 US CAUCASIAN, 0.048 US AFRICAN

Noaide

[tomcat]

I think my earliest analysis of your alleles was wrong here is the correct one:
0.022 NA, 0.105 ASIAN 0.786 US CAUCASIAN, 0.048 US AFRICAN
Noaide

Let me be the very first to pester you on this point; could that East Asian REALLY BE Native American?

[Kathleen Carrow]

Sister's tests Irish

Well I am excited ..took me overnight for it to sink in that my sister's autosomal test gave me an extra glimpse at Dad's paternal ancestry as we do NOT match at all on 2 alleles
FGA 11,17 and 13,16
and D18 19,20 and 24,25
THX Tom for helping..

When I ran my sister's test last night on ENSFI I put in one inaccurate marker..
when running it again I find she looks even MORE Irish and NW EU..

#1 Irish
#2 France
#3 Denmark
#4 Poland
#5 Germany
#6 North Ireland
#7 Switzerland
#8 Scotland
#9 Austria
#10 Sweden..

[Kathleen Carrow]

My Cousin

well here they are..and I just ran hers on ENSI..as she is Irish as Paddy's Pig so I am jealous..
Ireland is #1 for her
Poland #2
germany #3
Sweden #4
Estonia #5

Kathleen ....... Carol
CSIPO 11,12........ 12,12
D13 14,15 ........ 9,14
D16 12,13 ........ 9,12
D18 16,17 ......... 11,13
D21 28,32.2 ........ 28,30
D3S 14,15 ......... 15,15
D5 11,12 .......... 11,12
D7 8,11............ 8,8
D8 12,14 ...... 13,14
FGA 19,24 ......... 20,25
Penta D ............ 11,11
Penta E 13,16 ............ 7,16
THO1 9.3,9.3 .......... 7,9.3
VWA 15,19 ........ 15,16

And the plot thickens..
the few markers I ran of my maternal male couisn ( Mom's brother's Son)
shows me this:
CSFIPO 11,12
FGA 19,20
Penta E 11,13
THO1 9,9
VWA 15,16

So can I assume from that that my Dad had:
VWA 19
Penta E 7
CSIPO 12
?

[Noaide]

Let me be the very first to pester you on this point; could that East Asian REALLY BE Native American?

I have absolutly no clue, but many caucasians have asian affilations when using only 13 CODIS. The earlier test revealed little chance of having "immigrant" ancestry from the other 3 populations

Noaide

[tomcat]

And the plot thickens..
the few markers I ran of my maternal male couisn ( Mom's brother's Son)
shows me this:
CSFIPO 11,12
FGA 19,20
Penta E 11,13
THO1 9,9
VWA 15,16

So can I assume from that that my Dad had:
VWA 19
Penta E 7
CSIPO 12
?

That would be an assumption built-on a very thin set of data. You would only match a cousin at 25% on average. Could you expand the number of marker for him and do you have another maternal cousin you could test?

[Johnserrat]

I have absolutly no clue, but many caucasians have asian affilations when using only 13 CODIS. The earlier test revealed little chance of having "immigrant" ancestry from the other 3 populations

Noaide

I have been told by DNA Tribes and FTDNA that about 2% of western-europeans will test as east-asian. I have a strong match with a tribe from Nepal and no other strong matches. I am now in contact with several other people from the Benelux area (Belgium, Netherlands, and Luxemburg) who have similar results despite having a documented paper genealogy going back hundreds of years in that part of europe. None of us, myself included, were born in North America.

I am not saying that Native Americans could not test as East Asian, but anyone with western european ancestry should be aware that they could fall within the 2% that will test as East Asian. The explanation that I have received is that the results are likely indicative of ancient ties between Asia and Europe. After all, virtually all europeans came from Asia at some point in time.

John

[Downer101]

This is correct, I know a knight in Poland that was famous was Zawisza Czarny (Zawisza the Black). He was considered black because of his hair colour and his eyes. The modern term for a black person in Poland is Czarnuch, so it's very similar, but ideas change. For some reason, I still don't understand why many Northern Europeans show up Finno-Ugrian on DNA Tribes, but on AncestryByDNA these people don't show up with any East Asian. How does this happen?

[Kathleen Carrow]

Rootsweb link for tests

I just saw this today.Thomas Krahn is posting some remarks on siblingship tests and the use of 2 sibs with autosomal markers....

http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2007-03/1175151447

[lgmayka]

The modern term for a black person in Poland is Czarnuch, so it's very similar, but ideas change.

Isn't 'Czarnuch' an offensive term that emphasizes skin color? At least when I learned Polish, the correct term for people of sub-Saharan ancestry was Murzyn, which is related to the English word 'Moor':

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors

[Jodee]

PROBABLY. All my top matches are to populations with which I share no direct ancestry. My top matches score as high as 53, but it is only when I get down to score-range 16-14 (on an Extended Report) that I see any readings on my one-half Jewish ancestry or my Native American ancestry and there only to admixed populations.

Top matches are not 'wrong' or even 'useless' but they don't give me the information I want. Nevertheless they are allover the Middle East/ Asia Minor/Mediterranen and seem entirely appropriate as readings of my majority 'generic' ancestry.

Tom, thanks for the family example and explanations, its been helpful. i'm tending to think as the databases grow my Tribes Hispanic/North African influences will grow into something UK connected with the Welsh/English/even Scotch Irish lines - such as the link between the Britons and Spaniards as mentioned as a possibility to me by FTDNA. That and my Danish 2x gr-grandmother with the Spanish soldier father, just might be what sets my results over the edge. i tell you this dna wonderment sure isn't for the meek of heart

i am curious about my husband now - he's born and raised in the same place in Wales where his family has been for generations on both sides. It would be interesting to see his results, such as if in his Y markers R1b1 turns up, and to compare his autosomal results, seeing if they reflect Hispanic / Mediterranean influences.......now just to twist his arm

Thanks again,
Jodee

[tomcat]

i got my extended Tribes report and been looking at the all small numbers on there of my known ancestry: Wales .08, Denmark .12, Glasgow, Scotland .17, Sweden .19, Switzerland .55, Germany all tallied up to 1.34, as compared to the mostly Hispanic, North African scores that keep haunting me
...
My highest single NW European Tribes score is .65 Northern Ireland, which seemingly fits into the picture. Hopefully the upcoming D2 and D19 will tell more. i'll list my ENSFI matches as well.

ENFSI results (all E-13)
Italy 7.5308
Belgium 7.1968
Portugal 6.5443
Northern Ireland 5.3346
France/Lille 4.3983
Germany 3.5029
Denmark 3.1801
Spain 3.1601
France/Toulouse 3.0294
Norway 2.4610
Slovenia 2.4333
Sweden 2.3369
Switzerland 2.2170
Poland 1.8982
Netherlands 1.7640
Scotland/Glasgow 1.7502
Estonia 1.7367
England/Wales 1.7047
Finland 1.6366
Austria 1.5272
Scotland/Dundee 1.2569
Ireland 1.2547

The ENFSI results confirm your known genealogy. The Tribes results are weird, especially the low scores for the European matches. I have seen two iterations of an Extended Report where matches to known ancestry, although low down the list to begin with, went even lower.

Don't know what causes that ... maybe their 'generic human' measure is readjusted with every addition to the database?

[Jodee]

The ENFSI results confirm your known genealogy. The Tribes results are weird, especially the low scores for the European matches. I have seen two iterations of an Extended Report where matches to known ancestry, although low down the list to begin with, went even lower.

Don't know what causes that ... maybe their 'generic human' measure is readjusted with every addition to the database?

It'll definitely be interesting to try a new Tribes Extended report 6 months to a year from now and see if the low scores climb higher or drop a bit more - meanwhile for now ENFSI does seem more redeeming and with the two upcoming markers, might even say a bit more.

Jodee

[Eki]

Why?
I thought "7.3429E-12" as top

1E-11 = 0.00000000001
1E-12 = 0.000000000001

Therefore 1E-11 > 1E-12

[Eki]

i got my extended Tribes report and been looking at the all small numbers on there of my known ancestry: Wales .08, Denmark .12, Glasgow, Scotland .17, Sweden .19, Switzerland .55, Germany all tallied up to 1.34, as compared to the mostly Hispanic, North African scores that keep haunting me
Could one distant family line be showing up as all of this, such as that Native American gr++grandfather? Or could the top match scores be something from much further back (ie. Celtic Galatian roots) and i'm just thinking too small?

My highest single NW European Tribes score is .65 Northern Ireland, which seemingly fits into the picture. Hopefully the upcoming D2 and D19 will tell more. i'll list my ENSFI matches as well.

So......do you think an AncestryByDNA test would add any clues?

Thanks for any suggestions - Jodee

Top Extended Match results
Caracas, Venezuela 7.46
Maracaibo, Venezuela 6.26
Toscana, Italy 6.16
El-Minia, Egypt 6.06
Moroccan (Belgium) 5.83
Maghrebi 5.53
Bocaya, Colombia 5.31
Campania, Italy 5.09
Costa Rica 4.95
Hispanic 4.69
Hispanic, Minn, US 4.57
Andalusia, Spain 4.37
Buenos Aires, Argentina 4.36
Hispanic, CA, US 4.25
Chilhuahua, Mexico 4.11
Brazil 3.89
Costa Rica 3.88
Hispanic 3.87
Hispanic, FL 3.87
Springfield, MA, US 3.13
etc.

ENFSI results (all E-13)
Italy 7.5308
Belgium 7.1968
Portugal 6.5443
Northern Ireland 5.3346
France/Lille 4.3983
Germany 3.5029
Denmark 3.1801
Spain 3.1601
France/Toulouse 3.0294
Norway 2.4610
Slovenia 2.4333
Sweden 2.3369
Switzerland 2.2170
Poland 1.8982
Netherlands 1.7640
Scotland/Glasgow 1.7502
Estonia 1.7367
England/Wales 1.7047
Finland 1.6366
Austria 1.5272
Scotland/Dundee 1.2569
Ireland 1.2547

I'd guess that since your highest ENFSI match is 7.5E-13, you probably have also non-European ancestors. Even my lowest ENFSI match is 6.8E-12 (Switzerland) and my highest is 1.6E-10 (Finland). Everything else is E-11.