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  • Ancestry by DNA

    I think I read somewhere that the Native American database ABDNA has is heavy on the Southwestern tribes, light on the other tribes. Anybody know if that's right?

  • #2
    Try DNA Tribes.

    If you are talking about the test that AncestryByDNA performs then the answer is no. You might be better off with another Autosomal DNA test called DNA Tribes. It can give you a better idea. I took it and it was quite interesting. AncestrybyDNA can't tell you what tribe you are from. They will only tell you wheter you have inherited any markers that are consistent with Native Americans. It is a percentage test. It will only give you a most likely percentage if you are Native American. Oh forgot to tell you you can still be Narive American but it doesn't always show up on this test. It will say Indo European, East Asian, Native American, Sub Saharran African. I am 10% Native American and 90% Indo European. Have a nice evening! Maria

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    • #3
      Thanks, Maria, but that wasn't what I meant. I know ABDNA just gives you % NA, EU, SSA and AS. What I think I read, though, was that the DNA in their NA database that they compare your sample to is made up mostly of DNA samples from the Southwestern tribes. So, as I interpret this, if your sample comes back 10% NA, that means essentially that 10% of your sample compared most closely to Southwestern NA DNA and not necessarily Plains, Southeast, East, etc.. Is that clearer? Did I read correctly, and am I interpreting correctly?

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      • #4
        No connection!

        Duh! Sorry. I misunderstood your post. Thats interesting. I have no clue. I have no known connection to southwestern tribes that I know of. Please let me know too. Where is this database for AncestrybyDNA? Maria

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        • #5
          I guess their database is proprietary. I really don't know. Betcha Tomcat knows.

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          • #6
            TraceGenetics, purchased by DNAPrint in the past year or so, has one of the largest private databases of Native American DNA results and they still offer a specialized reading of autosomal, y and mt results relative to Native ancestry. I don't know how their db of Native DNA results is weighted. You might ask TraceGenetics. I do know that some of the most DNA-distinctive tribes are from the southwest - those that have readily discernible tribal haplotypes.

            Tom

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            • #7
              I figured you'd know something about the subject!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by N4321
                I think I read somewhere that the Native American database ABDNA has is heavy on the Southwestern tribes, light on the other tribes. Anybody know if that's right?
                You are correctly informed. The ABDNA test uses the Shriver marker set - one of the most ancestry-informative of marker sets - and the population samples came from the Southwest and Mexico as indicated in the following:

                "Skin pigmentation, biogeographical ancestry and admixture mapping"
                Mark D. Shriver · Esteban J. Parra · Sonia Dios · Carolina Bonilla · Heather Norton · Celina Jovel · Carrie Pfaff · Cecily Jones · Aisha Massac · Neil Cameron · Archie Baron · Tabitha Jackson · George Argyropoulos · Li Jin · Clive J. Hoggart · Paul M. McKeigue · Rick A. Kittles (Google the title for a free .pdf download).

                But this does not mean that the Shriver set or ABDNA are uninformative for other Native Americans. Many of the posters to the thread "Native American 'Tribes" took both the ABDNA and Tribes tests and found them mutually confirming (see FTDNA forum DNA and Genealogy). Nevertheless there is a real lack of Native DNA data or, at least, publicly-available data for most North American tribes.

                See the thread,

                Tom

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                • #9
                  If the samples are from South Western tribes and tribes from Mexico, I wonder why it didn't show up on our DNAPrint test? Unless the East Asian and the red confidence bar for NA have something to do with it? The Hispanic scores from DNATribes and Omnipop and Euro/Native for RCMP are quite strong and all agree so definately something there..anyone know what tribes Hispanics would originate from? We have quite a strong Mestizo score too.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tomcat
                    You are correctly informed. The ABDNA test uses the Shriver marker set - one of the most ancestry-informative of marker sets - and the population samples came from the Southwest and Mexico as indicated in the following:

                    "Skin pigmentation, biogeographical ancestry and admixture mapping"
                    Mark D. Shriver · Esteban J. Parra · Sonia Dios · Carolina Bonilla · Heather Norton · Celina Jovel · Carrie Pfaff · Cecily Jones · Aisha Massac · Neil Cameron · Archie Baron · Tabitha Jackson · George Argyropoulos · Li Jin · Clive J. Hoggart · Paul M. McKeigue · Rick A. Kittles (Google the title for a free .pdf download).

                    But this does not mean that the Shriver set or ABDNA are uninformative for other Native Americans. Many of the posters to the thread "Native American 'Tribes" took both the ABDNA and Tribes tests and found them mutually confirming (see FTDNA forum DNA and Genealogy). Nevertheless there is a real lack of Native DNA data or, at least, publicly-available data for most North American tribes.

                    See the thread,

                    Tom
                    I thought the articles were interesting. I just do not know which ABDNA markers compares with the markers listed.

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancestr...rmative_marker

                    On March 4, 1815, Jefferson wrote a chatty 4-page letter in reply.2 He explained that slavery and endogamous group membership were unrelated in Virginia law. On the one hand, mulattos were legally Black and the law defined “mulatto” as anyone with one or more “negro” grandparents. Jefferson thereupon filled two pages with mathematical equations to show that anyone with less that 1/4 African admixture was legally White.3 On the other hand, slavery passed through the mother with no diminution regardless of ancestry, and had nothing to do with the color line. Only upon emancipation would a former slave’s membership in either of America’s endogamous groups become an issue. And so, Jefferson explained, specifically referring to one of his European-looking slaves, “if emancipated, he becomes a free white man [emphasis Jefferson’s], and a citizen of the United States to all intents and purposes.”4

                    http://backintyme.com/essay040811.htm

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                    • #11
                      Only way.

                      Spain and Portugal are in my family but they are way back like 750 years ago when the Plantagenets married into Spain and Portugal. That would be the only way that I know of that I could have Native American blood from the Southwest or Mexico. On DNA Tribes I had a microscopic trace of Mestizo. 0.03 . I assume that all of my blood came from the southeastern tribes of the U.S. Since there are native g .parents on both sides that are missing total names I can't be sure what other tribes are involved. May never find out. Have a nice evning. Maria

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                      • #12
                        Southeastern Tribes.

                        For those of you who don't know I took AncestrybyDNA and my results were Native American 10% and my ancestry is Virginian Algonquian, Potowomeck, which is documented. Maria

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                        • #13
                          Clearly, the Southwest tribes have genetics in common with the other tribes, so as Tomcat said, the fact that ABDNA is Southwest-heavy doesn't mean it has no meaning as far as other tribes are concerned. I just wonder how it is affected - in other words, Maria, you came up 10% NA - if the ABDNA database included more members of Southeastern tribes, could your % NA come up as 15%? I don't know - Tomcat?

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                          • #14
                            Oh, I don't know ... I suppose, on the face of it I would say the ABDNA underestimates NA. Native Americans had and have a 3 billion-plus-base-pair genome just like all the other humans in the world. Can one assert they have measured all difference between Natives and Europeans or Africans and Asians based on a test of 175 SNP's or 13 STR's?

                            The percentage ancestry test is pretty goofy - when one thinks about it - it is off-the-point of most genealogical research. It is nice for me to know that DNAPrint thinks I am 31% Native but it would be so much more meaningful to me if a test could tell me I am 15% Shawnee and 10% Huron and 5% Sauk or 5% Menominee.

                            DNA testing is great stuff but it has come 500 years too late.

                            What should we do now to recover what is recoverable?

                            Tom

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                            • #15
                              Well, I doubt we can dig people up from their graves just to check their DNA, so I suppose we start by testing as many living people as are willing to be tested so we can grow the databases. Obviously, the cost is going to have to come way down before that can realistically happen. I've got no knowledge at all about how it all works - my head swims just reading your posts, tomcat! Maybe those with the knowledge and the interest will figure out a way to derive more meaning out of what we do have.

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