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  • robe3b
    replied
    Originally posted by MMaddi
    The other factor is that FTDNA's database is skewed in a couple of ways. First of all, those with British Isles ancestry are overrepresented, since most American genealogists are of British Isles ancestry. That doesn't relate to your situation, but the other overrepresented group in the FTDNA database is those of Jewish ancestry. One of the big breakthroughs in genetic genealogy was the discovery of the Cohen Modal Haplotype (CMH) several years ago. This showed that Jewish men who had a history of being in the priestly class (many surnamed Cohen) did have similar results, called CMH. This is in J1 and some in J2, not E3b, but I believe it caused many Jewish genealogists, beyond their percentage in the general population, to test their DNA to see if they have the CMH. So, Jewish ancestry is somewhat over-represented in the database here.

    Mike Maddi

    Well said, Mike. This is what the RAO section of my personal page shows (I don’t have exact matches.


    Belarus (330) Ashkenazi 1

    England (13738) - 2

    Hungary (575) Ashkenazi 1

    Israel (91) Ashkenazi 1

    Poland (1633) Ashkenazi 1

    Scotland (6069) - 2

    Ukraine (765) Ashkenazi 1

    United Kingdom (4439) - 1

    I must discard one of the English matches, because he belongs to haplogroup V13. Thus, I get five Ashkenazi and four British 10/12 matches.
    Things like this makes people go a bit crazy (me included)

    Roberto (Spanish paternal lineage)

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  • efgen
    replied
    We have responded to AlexVA's question on the E3b project's Double-Helix forum:

    http://community.haplozone.net/index.php?topic=340.0

    Larry, thanks for the redirect.

    Elise

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Non-Jewish E3b

    Ii have uploaded my results to the E3b project but haven't had a chance to ask for their take on my results. I thought my results would give me greater clarity, but I am more confused now. I have many fewer matches now and no one seems to be a particularly close match. I also don't seem to fit in any of the E3b1 clusters.

    Leave a comment:


  • lgmayka
    replied
    Originally posted by AlexVA
    I just received my 25 test results today and I have to wait a few more days for my full 37 test results.

    I am a bit confused by my results. I am N2689 in Family Tree and QG5W4 in ySearch.
    I see that you have now posted your full 37 markers. Here is your Ysearch neighbor list:

    http://www.ysearch.org/search_result...ting_marker=23

    You are pretty far away from everyone else. Your neighbors, such as they are, seem to be more E3b1c (formerly known as E3b3).

    Have you joined the E3b Project, and then asked for a classification in their forum?

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Non-Jewish E3b

    I just received my 25 test results today and I have to wait a few more days for my full 37 test results.

    I am a bit confused by my results. I am N2689 in Family Tree and QG5W4 in ySearch.

    I have definite Italian ancestry. My great-grandfather was born in Poggiomarino, Italy (on the slopes of Mt. Vesuvius) and we have no known Jewish ancestry. I have a few other Italians as matches, but I also have a number of matches with people of English and German ancestry as well as some of Jewish ancestry.

    Any thoughts on this?

    Do my results put me in the E3b1 alpha cluster?

    Thanks

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  • Jim Denning
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Denning
    actually they were hebrew

    the laws of ireland were written at tara. which btw is in danger of being destructed search TARA WATCH
    these laws were done by ollam folla which means seer. ollam folla is probably Jerimiah. Ireland was the only other place for cities of santuaries. and alot more .Olgham the keltoi vocabuary used no vowel points like hebrew.The druids were christian after joseph of aremathea and lasuruz converted them. and caradoc aka caractus after being btrayed was allowed to stay alive in rome liing of the taxes of britian . his wife pricilla started the church in rome in there house along with paul and pauls half brother a roman senator.
    they converted rome . if you want to learn more read "Did st paul visit Britian" by G.W.Morgan

    It was the church as usual not understanding any other belief then theirs killed them unless they became roman. whose the pagan ?

    BTW SAVE TARA

    http://www.tarawatch.org/

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Denning
    replied
    Originally posted by Rossi
    One major point. The Lost Tribes were not Jews. There were pagans.

    actually they were hebrew

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  • vinnie
    replied
    Originally posted by efgen
    Hi Vinnie,

    Your cousin is one point off from the E3b modal (DYS439=11 instead of 12), so I suspect that he has quite a few matches. I would also expect his deep-clade test to come back as E3b1a, though E3b1c1 is another possibility. If you look at his Haplogroup page, you should see that his close matches are both E3b1a and E3b1c1. This is because the modal (and near-modal) 12-marker haplotype can be found in both of these subclades.

    If your cousin's subclade comes back as E3b1a, he'll be offered the V-series test on his Haplogroup page. Most people who are as close to the modal as your cousin are E3b1a2 (V13), though there are always some exceptions. We can further evaluate once your cousin's 37 markers are in. Some marker values that are further indicative of V13 are DYS460=9, GATAH4=11 and YCA=19-21.

    V13 also has downstream subclades. The E3b project has only one person in one of these subclades, so far -- he's M224+ (E3b1a2b). His markers look just like a V13, so I would have never predicted this. Hopefully the V-series testing will find more people in these subclades.

    Elise
    Hi Elise, your prediction was right, and my deep snp shows E3b1a. So I've ordered the v-series and still waiting on the 37 upgrade. At this point, can I hypothesize that my Sicilian grandfather may have been descended from Albanians who migrated to Sicily? His town is not too far east of the area still known as "The Plain of the Albanians" on the north coast of the island. I taught ESL to a number of Kosovar Albanians a few years back and I have other Albanian friends; do I have to wait for more testing before telling them we might be "cousins"? Unfortunately, these results don't shed any light on how my grandfather's surname is documented as an old French-Jewish name...

    Vinnie
    Last edited by vinnie; 29 September 2007, 11:56 AM.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    For Elise,

    Elise,

    Once again, thanks for the information and your efforts clarifying my haplotypes.

    Once I get the subclade data in and digest the results and what it means, I'll probably upgrade to 37 marker to greater resolve the issue.

    Best Regards,

    Doug
    e3b1man

    Leave a comment:


  • efgen
    replied
    Hi Vinnie,

    Your cousin is one point off from the E3b modal (DYS439=11 instead of 12), so I suspect that he has quite a few matches. I would also expect his deep-clade test to come back as E3b1a, though E3b1c1 is another possibility. If you look at his Haplogroup page, you should see that his close matches are both E3b1a and E3b1c1. This is because the modal (and near-modal) 12-marker haplotype can be found in both of these subclades.

    If your cousin's subclade comes back as E3b1a, he'll be offered the V-series test on his Haplogroup page. Most people who are as close to the modal as your cousin are E3b1a2 (V13), though there are always some exceptions. We can further evaluate once your cousin's 37 markers are in. Some marker values that are further indicative of V13 are DYS460=9, GATAH4=11 and YCA=19-21.

    V13 also has downstream subclades. The E3b project has only one person in one of these subclades, so far -- he's M224+ (E3b1a2b). His markers look just like a V13, so I would have never predicted this. Hopefully the V-series testing will find more people in these subclades.

    Elise
    Last edited by efgen; 12 September 2007, 12:03 PM.

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  • vinnie
    replied
    Elise, I've ordered the 37 upgrade. The kit# is N52769. Thanks much!

    Vinnie

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  • efgen
    replied
    Hi Vinnie,

    For J1, it makes sense to test 67 markers to subdivide the haplogroup into clusters, since most people test negative for the few known subclades. I hope someone eventually discovers some useful J1 SNPs to change this situation

    For E3b, there are many relevant subclades available for testing. While it would be great for E3b research to have everyone test 67 markers and the deep clades, of course this isn't feasible for all individuals. So those who need to watch their finances need to find a happy medium between testing markers and subclades.

    37 markers is a great level for both genealogy and deep ancestry. A close or exact match at 37 markers should be related within genealogical timeframe. And those who are most familiar with E3b haplotypes can often predict the subclade from 37 markers. So individuals who are interested in their deep ancestry can decide whether they're satisfied with a prediction or want to spend the additional funds on a subclade test.

    Sounds like you went the other way, starting with the deep-clade test and thinking about upgrading to 37 as well. Nothing wrong with that either If the deep-clade test shows that your cousin is E3b1a, then the V-series would be offered to you for further testing.

    If you want to let me know your cousin's kit# or Ysearch ID, I can take a look and let you know if I have any specific recommendations.

    Elise
    Last edited by efgen; 12 September 2007, 02:04 AM.

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  • vinnie
    replied
    Elise,

    I appreciate the explanation and advice you've shared. I've been trying to decide how much time and money to invest in my cousin's E3b1 dna sample, as he's a direct male descendant in my maternal grandfather's line. Now I think I'm going to order the 12-37 upgrade, as I'm waiting for the deep SNP results to come in. I'm also surprised at the differences between J1 and E3b as to what should be tested. I'm glad I went with the 67 upgrade on J1, as it indicates that my own paternal line might be a new subgroup in that haplogroup. Likewise, do you have any advice on the "v-series" or other tests for E3b?

    Vinnie

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  • efgen
    replied
    Originally posted by e3b1man
    You stated that my marker values are modal for 12-marker haplotype. Can you tell me where I can make these comparisons?
    Just to clarify, your values are "almost" modal -- not completely You wouldn't know this just by looking at your own values -- the information comes from analyzing many E3b haplotypes.

    The E3b Haplozone website has a list of modals for the 3 major E3b1 subclades:

    http://www.haplozone.net/e3b/project/loadview/15

    You differ from the E3b1a modal by 3 markers -- DYS391, DYS385a, DYS439.
    You also differ from the E3b1c1 modal by 3 markers -- DYS391, DYS439, DYS389-2.

    So when you look at the Haplogroup page in your MyFTDNA account, you will see that some of your close matches are E3b1a and others are E3b1c1.

    You can see that the E3b1a and E3b1c1 modals are very similar to each other through the 25 marker level. The differences are at 385a, 389-2, 458 and 464b.

    DYS385, DYS439 and DYS464 are considered fast mutators. DYS391 and DYS389-2 are considered slow mutators. Fast vs slow was determined through a mutation rate study of father-son pairs. Some markers were more likely to be different between father and son than others. The ones that were more likely to differ are considered fast and the ones that were less likely to differ are considered slow.

    All markers are important when you're comparing yourself to others in a genealogical timeframe and seeing how many differences there are between you -- you want the closest match possible. However, from a bird's eye view of the haplotypes and subclades, the slow markers are more important. So when I look at the E3b1a vs E3b1c1 modals, I see two extremely close modals that differ on only one slow marker -- 389-2.

    Now look at the 37/67-marker modals:

    http://www.haplozone.net/e3b/project/loadview/16

    The 37-marker panel goes from DYS460 through DYS438, then the 67-marker panel goes from DYS531 through the end of the list. You'll see that there's much more variation between E3b1a and E3b1c1 at these levels. There's more variation between individuals as this level as well.

    Thanks for the advice on upgrading. The 67 marker upgrade gets a bit pricey. Have you heard comments whether people feel the additional cash is worth the greater refinement obtained vis-a-vis 25-marker upgrade.
    Yes, the 67-marker upgrade does get quite pricey, but the 37-marker upgrade is more reasonable and will give you more refinement than the 25-marker upgrade. As shown above, with only 25 markers, there's little variation between two different subclades that are each thousands of years old, and you'll find that there's less variation between individuals at that level as well. However, at the 37-marker level, there's increased variation between population groups and individuals and it'll definitely help show who you're most closely related to in a genealogical timeframe.

    Elise
    Last edited by efgen; 8 September 2007, 12:41 PM.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    12 Marker Upgrade

    Elise,

    I am indeed the only e3b1 on the Fulton Surname project. You stated that my marker values are modal for 12-marker haplotype. Can you tell me where I can make these comparisons? I have the values but am not sure what they represent. Like I told Mike, I am the epitome of a neophyte in genetics, and all information and clarification is not only appreciated, but highly requisite.

    Thanks for the advice on upgrading. The 67 marker upgrade gets a bit pricey. Have you heard comments whether people feel the additional cash is worth the greater refinement obtained vis-a-vis 25-marker upgrade.

    The information on the E3b project and associated websites is much appreciated. I've already joined and probably will spend hours there tonight.

    Kind Regards,

    e3b1man

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