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  • nas
    replied
    R1b1c6

    Originally posted by Arch Yeomans
    I primarily see it (R1b1c6) mostly in southwestern England (Devon/Cornwall) and a few samples from Spain.

    From my understanding the family was possibly originally seated in Bristol. I have a few connections I was able to link between Cardiff and Bristol. Somerset, and Gloucestershire is not too far away from Devon/Cornwall.

    Though I'd by no way be surprised to a long settlement in the region of Powys/West Midlands region.

    The biggest concern I have, is that I'm researching in an area that is way far off from where I should be looking in relation to my genetic heritage. I'm sure that's a concern many other folks have as well.
    Hello,
    From what I see on my Haplo-list you must be very close to R1b1c7:
    exact =0
    step1=0
    step2=1 Scotland
    step3=2 England + 1 Spain
    step4=1 England + 1 Germany + 1 Ireland + 2 U.K.
    +1 Unknown.
    Could be a split in Germany.???????

    nas

    Leave a comment:


  • Arch Yeomans
    replied
    Black Irish

    Originally posted by Fraigno
    I was looking at the wrong marker I had 448 confused with 458
    448 is not as fast mutating as 458. my 448 is 21 my 458 is 15
    sorry about the confusion.

    As for the term Black Irish I think in the US it appears to be passed down in
    families mostly in the South and in the Midwest - usually from Pennsylvania
    down.(But, various Irish families coming at different times have used the term)
    I believe the post about Black Irish coming to America or England during the Potato Famine may be more correct. However, I have heard of some people mentioning Irish folks with dark hair, instead of the stereotypical red hair, of Irish descent are known as Black Irish. Of course the story about Spaniards who crashed ashore of the Irish coast is another one.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fraigno
    replied
    I was looking

    Originally posted by Arch Yeomans
    I did notice in the census records that my great grandfather mentions his mother is from Ireland (right around the time frame of the potato famine). Though my understanding is that my great great grandfather is from England (possibly southwestern, most likely western portion of the island).

    Interestingly my great grandfather married an Irish woman too, she may have been his second wife (still not sure if she's my great grandmother). It's interesting to see these Irish connections on my maternal side. Given that Ireland is closer to Wales and Western England it kind of makes sense.

    I know there historically has been a strong Irish presence in Anglesey and in Pembrokeshire, Wales. As far as the 448 marker, it seems as if everybody I come across tends to be from the western portion of England or from Ireland with numbers below the common 19 for this marker.



    I was looking at the wrong marker I had 448 confused with 458
    448 is not as fast mutating as 458. my 448 is 21 my 458 is 15
    sorry about the confusion.

    As for the term Black Irish I think in the US it appears to be passed down in
    families mostly in the South and in the Midwest - usually from Pennsylvania
    down.(But, various Irish families coming at different times have used the term)

    Leave a comment:


  • Arch Yeomans
    replied
    Re: Books on Celts

    Yeah I have several books on the Celts. I've never considered myself Celtic per se because I always associated my surname as Germanic. However, my appearance looks nothing like a typical German or Saxon, except for height. When my DNA tests came back with R1b1, I noticed everything I read was pointing towards Celtic. So inquiring minds want to know, I sure did.

    My SNP tests seem to confirm at least some ancient origin in Iberia. According to Ethnoancestry, it points to a region in southern Iberia. Given all the stories I hear about the Silures, the Welsh in their legends of the continent, the Irish and the Milesians. It really does in a way make me wonder there are elements of truths in these stories about an origins in Spain/Iberia. The science of DNA will probably rewrite some history.

    Historians have always said "Not True" about the Silures coming from Spain or Iberia. Yet, I don't think Tacitus would have a reason to embellish about the appearance of such people and their possible origins. He's one of the few Romans who seems to be truthful about what he wrote. Unlike many others who would exaggerate or stretch out the truth about the Barbarians, Tacitus was more on the money; so it seems to me. I just wished Tacitus would have given us more physical characteristics about other Celtic tribes.

    One book I find especially intriguing is Sir Barry Cunliffe's "Facing the Atlantic" and the findings he and many other archeaologists have come across. It is a fascinating account of the Celtic and pre-Celtic people in Western Europe and it covers much more. It really is worth the investment and time to read.

    Leave a comment:


  • Arch Yeomans
    replied
    old wives tales?

    Originally posted by Fraigno
    I believe 448 is a fast mutating marker so I am not sure how much it
    means in comparison the other markers( I am R1b1c and my 448 is 15)

    Black Irish usually is believed to mean either Irish who left during
    one of the potato famines or Irish who had possibly a little Spanish blood
    from shipwrecked sailors from the time after the Spanish Armada.
    (But I don't think anyone really knows for sure - most of it is speculation
    and has not been proved)
    I did notice in the census records that my great grandfather mentions his mother is from Ireland (right around the time frame of the potato famine). Though my understanding is that my great great grandfather is from England (possibly southwestern, most likely western portion of the island).

    Interestingly my great grandfather married an Irish woman too, she may have been his second wife (still not sure if she's my great grandmother). It's interesting to see these Irish connections on my maternal side. Given that Ireland is closer to Wales and Western England it kind of makes sense.

    I know there historically has been a strong Irish presence in Anglesey and in Pembrokeshire, Wales. As far as the 448 marker, it seems as if everybody I come across tends to be from the western portion of England or from Ireland with numbers below the common 19 for this marker.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fraigno
    replied
    Well....

    Originally posted by Arch Yeomans
    Another person I know with DYS 448 = 17 is of Welsh descent and he lives in Ireland. I know my father mentioned something about us being Welsh, and I believe my mother remembers something about Black Irish (whatever that is).


    I believe 448 is a fast mutating marker so I am not sure how much it
    means in comparison the other markers( I am R1b1c and my 448 is 15)

    Black Irish usually is believed to mean either Irish who left during
    one of the potato famines or Irish who had possibly a little Spanish blood
    from shipwrecked sailors from the time after the Spanish Armada.
    (But I don't think anyone really knows for sure - most of it is speculation
    and has not been proved)

    Leave a comment:


  • Stevo
    replied
    Originally posted by Arch Yeomans
    I primarily see it (R1b1c6) mostly in southwestern England (Devon/Cornwall) and a few samples from Spain.

    From my understanding the family was possibly originally seated in Bristol. I have a few connections I was able to link between Cardiff and Bristol. Somerset, and Gloucestershire is not too far away from Devon/Cornwall.

    Though I'd by no way be surprised to a long settlement in the region of Powys/West Midlands region.

    The biggest concern I have, is that I'm researching in an area that is way far off from where I should be looking in relation to my genetic heritage. I'm sure that's a concern many other folks have as well.
    It sounds to me like what you are doing is reasonable. If the paper trail you have indicates the regions you listed, then that is where you must look. Those areas are well within the purview of R1b1c6; really, anywhere in Britain is reasonable for R1b1c6.

    Have you read Simon James' The World of the Celts (Thames & Hudson)? I'm reading it now. I think you might find it very interesting.

    Leave a comment:


  • Arch Yeomans
    replied
    I'm not seeing much of it anywhere

    Originally posted by Stevo
    My impression of what little I have read about R1b1c6 is that it is a Celtic subclade that appears not only in Iberia but in southwestern England, specifically Cornwall, and Wales.
    I primarily see it (R1b1c6) mostly in southwestern England (Devon/Cornwall) and a few samples from Spain.

    From my understanding the family was possibly originally seated in Bristol. I have a few connections I was able to link between Cardiff and Bristol. Somerset, and Gloucestershire is not too far away from Devon/Cornwall.

    Though I'd by no way be surprised to a long settlement in the region of Powys/West Midlands region.

    The biggest concern I have, is that I'm researching in an area that is way far off from where I should be looking in relation to my genetic heritage. I'm sure that's a concern many other folks have as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Arch Yeomans
    replied
    Funny you should mention that

    Originally posted by Stevo
    My impression of what little I have read about R1b1c6 is that it is a Celtic subclade that appears not only in Iberia but in southwestern England, specifically Cornwall, and Wales.
    Another person I know with DYS 448 = 17 is of Welsh descent and he lives in Ireland. I know my father mentioned something about us being Welsh, and I believe my mother remembers something about Black Irish (whatever that is).

    Leave a comment:


  • Stevo
    replied
    My impression of what little I have read about R1b1c6 is that it is a Celtic subclade that appears not only in Iberia but in southwestern England, specifically Cornwall, and Wales.

    Leave a comment:


  • Arch Yeomans
    replied
    I want to upgrade... hopefully before next year.

    I agree, the more markers the better. Maybe in my case perhaps mtDNA is a better option until I at least get 10 SRY2627 hits. I'm really fascinated by the results because it's a challenge. Looking at what seems to be the rarity for the haplogroup, and especially certain markers I possess seem interesting.

    I looked at the other R1b1c6 folks in Ybase and Ysearch and noticed that my DYS marker 448 is 17 while most DYS markers 448 are 19. From all I can tell or guess is that R1b1c6 originated somewhere in southern Iberia and perhaps even as far south as the Canary Islands region or NW African coastline.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stevo
    replied
    Originally posted by Arch Yeomans
    I have to admit, I had a hard time convincing the wife to let me spend the money on doing the SNP tests after I just had my 12 marker test bumped to 25 markers. I was considering 37 marker upgrade but it's making less sense to do that now, given that SRY2627 seems to not be very common. 9 people in a worldwide database that match SRY2627 is not very encouraging. I have yet to find any 25 marker matches on both Ysearch and Ybase.

    Finding only one 15 marker match. Yes I agree the 12 marker test is just not enough. They really need to eliminate it and go with a minimum of 25 markers.
    I can fully relate to what you are saying. I've spent what I consider to be a load of cash on dna testing over the last few months. Each successive order has tested not only my dna and my wallet but my wife's understanding, as well. That's why my mtDNA will probably have to wait until Christmas or next summer.

    Of course, I think you should upgrade to at least 37 markers. R1b1c6 is not going to remain underrepresented for long, and the more markers you and the other researchers have available, the more you will be able to learn.

    Leave a comment:


  • Arch Yeomans
    replied
    I'm sure cost is a major factor

    Originally posted by Stevo
    It would be nice if more guys were SNP tested. That would bulk up the SNP data base and perhaps provide some better geographic resolution.

    There are a lot of guys who get STR tested once and that's it; they're done. The 12-marker jobs are the most frustrating.

    I could be wrong, but I get the impression they got talked into a test by a female relative who is interested in geneaology (maybe she even paid for the test), but they won't pay for any further testing.
    I have to admit, I had a hard time convincing the wife to let me spend the money on doing the SNP tests after I just had my 12 marker test bumped to 25 markers. I was considering 37 marker upgrade but it's making less sense to do that now, given that SRY2627 seems to not be very common. 9 people in a worldwide database that match SRY2627 is not very encouraging. I have yet to find any 25 marker matches on both Ysearch and Ybase.

    Finding only one 15 marker match. Yes I agree the 12 marker test is just not enough. They really need to eliminate it and go with a minimum of 25 markers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stevo
    replied
    It would be nice if more guys were SNP tested. That would bulk up the SNP data base and perhaps provide some better geographic resolution.

    There are a lot of guys who get STR tested once and that's it; they're done. The 12-marker jobs are the most frustrating.

    I could be wrong, but I get the impression they got talked into a test by a female relative who is interested in geneaology (maybe she even paid for the test), but they won't pay for any further testing.

    Leave a comment:


  • lgmayka
    replied
    Ysearch already has the convenient ability to show an entire (sub)haplogroup. But right now it only shows 9 entries specifically marked as R1b1c6.

    Frankly, I think it makes much more sense simply to ask everyone:

    1) To create a Ysearch entry for your DNA results. Anyone who is squeamish about revealing personal information can leave items blank or dummy as necessary. For example, name and email can be blank or dummy, though we would still appreciate correct ancestral city or region.

    2) To keep the Ysearch entry up to date with your current knowledge of your haplogroup. This is very important, to avoid a vicious cycle of increasing incorrect haplogroup predictions (by experts, who do not have direct access to FTDNA's database and must often judge by Ysearch entries).

    Leave a comment:

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