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Haplogroup N

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  • Haplogroup N

    What is the history of haplogroup N?
    It frequent occurrence in east european region (russia) like R1a.

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Wikipedia actually has a reasonable, simple description:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_N_(Y-DNA)

    What Wikipedia doesn't tell you is that N's relationship with O has been controversial for years. Multiple times, an FTDNA customer was officially informed that his SNP test produced a haplogroup result of O. Then, later, due to negative feedback from either the customer, outside experts, or experts internal to FTDNA, the official result was somehow magically "adjusted" to N. To this day we still have no clear explanation of the rationale behind these "adjustments." Are the SNP tests for N and O inherently unreliable? Or is the technology applied by FTDNA unreliable, and another lab can test N and O more reliably? Or--in the worst case of all--is FTDNA possibly modifying its scientific results in order to quell complaints? (I certainly hope and assume not, since that would be a serious breach of scientific ethics.)

    The bottom line is that N is considered an "acceptable" result for Europeans, because it can result from immigration from Scandinavia or the Baltic republics. O is apparently considered by some to be "inexplicable" or "unacceptable," because it implies East Asian descent (even though there can be various reasons and sources for this).

    Here is an example. This table of results shows one, and possibly two, individuals with haplogroup O (at the bottom of the table). Note that one individual's haplogroup is in green, which means the appropriate SNP has tested positive:

    http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....rsdna/dna.html

    Now read carefully the description of haplogroup O in this accompanying explanation:

    http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read...-03/1141400536
    ---
    O-- 5% of our members are this haplogroup. A very old haplogroup, and fairly rare in all populations. It appears to have arisen in Central Asia (Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan region).
    ---

    Now take a look at this haplogroup map:

    http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mcdonald/Wo...groupsMaps.pdf

    O is clearly the majority haplogroup of China's billion-plus population, as well as of southeast Asia. It is also the most common haplogroup in Japan. Can anyone honestly call this haplogroup "fairly rare in all populations"? Can anyone rashly claim that it originated in "Central Asia" without mentioning its ubiquity in East Asia?

    My point, once again, is that O is apparently considered by many to be an "inexplicable" or "unacceptable" haplogroup. I can only hope and assume that FTDNA does not let such bias color its scientific determinations. On the other hand, if FTDNA is indeed staying honest, we have good reason to wonder about the reliability of its SNP tests for N and O.

    To be fair, I must point out that FTDNA does not actually run its own tests. I believe it contracts out all such work to the University of Arizona. The real question, then, is whether U of A really has the capability to conduct and interpret the SNP tests for N and O reliably.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by lgmayka
      O is clearly the majority haplogroup of China's billion-plus population, as well as of southeast Asia. It is also the most common haplogroup in Japan. Can anyone honestly call this haplogroup "fairly rare in all populations"? Can anyone rashly claim that it originated in "Central Asia" without mentioning its ubiquity in East Asia?
      The fact that a haplogroup is ubiquitous in one location does not contradict the notion that it originated in a different location? The ubiquity of R1b in Iceland is not evidence that it originated there, for example.

      It is worth pointing out that N and O are, in fact sub-branches of a group called NO on the ISOGG tree. Knowing which SNPs have been tested, and which have not, can prevent any confusion about the level of classification that has been done.

      Comment


      • #4
        lgmayka, thanks!
        It's very interesting informations.

        Haplogroup N in Russia most probably have finno-ugric roots. Finno-ugric population appeared in East Siberia and very likely should assimilate with slavic-speaking peoples thousands of years ago.

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