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  • Amh/wamh

    What is the difference between the AMH and the WAMH? Info for 12 markers that I have seen on the AMH compared to my markers puts me in AMC. I just looked at the WAMH on ySearch and for my 37 markers and there is a difference of 1 at eleven different DYS and a difference of 2 at both CDY a and CDY b. There seems to be some different views concerning the CDY a which might mean I only differ by 1.

  • #2
    Originally posted by R2-D2
    What is the difference between the AMH and the WAMH? Info for 12 markers that I have seen on the AMH compared to my markers puts me in AMC. I just looked at the WAMH on ySearch and for my 37 markers and there is a difference of 1 at eleven different DYS and a difference of 2 at both CDY a and CDY b. There seems to be some different views concerning the CDY a which might mean I only differ by 1.
    Maybe I'm wrong, but I think AMH and WAMH are the same thing. AMH is sometimes called the Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype rather than simply the Atlantic Modal Haplotype. Maybe because it is more fun to say WAMH! than AMH?

    What is AMC? I though that was the American Movie Channel.

    I am 13 mismatches off WAMH myself.

    I've heard that some folks have some kind of WAMH or AMH indicator on their personal pages.

    I've never had that. In fact, for quite awhile I was listed on my projects results pages as R1.

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    • #3
      Atlantic Modal Cluster

      AMC is the Atlantic Modal Cluster, it's where they put us mutants who are plus or minus one on any of the DYS values for the AMH. If AMH and WAMH are the same then maybe we are "WAMC"? I don't believe that I have ever seen "WAMC" before though. Is there anyone here who perfectly matches the AMH?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by R2-D2
        AMC is the Atlantic Modal Cluster, it's where they put us mutants who are plus or minus one on any of the DYS values for the AMH. If AMH and WAMH are the same then maybe we are "WAMC"? I don't believe that I have ever seen "WAMC" before though. Is there anyone here who perfectly matches the AMH?
        Do you have an "AMC," "AMH," or "WAMH" or your personal page anywhere?

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        • #5
          I think FTDNA gives you the WAMH icon based only on the first 12 markers.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Stevo
            Do you have an "AMC," "AMH," or "WAMH" or your personal page anywhere?
            No, I don't see anything.

            Comment


            • #7
              Wamh

              I'm a match. Here's what FTDNA has to say when I click the WAMH icon on my personal results page:


              The Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype is the most common Y-DNA signature of Europe’s most common Haplogroup, R1b. Simply put your ancestors have experienced a dramatic population explosion over the past 10,000 years, probably since the end of the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM-that’s Anthropology-speak for the last Ice Age) that covered most of Europe beginning 20,000 years ago and lasting for 10,000 long cold winters.

              R1b, and its most common Haplotype (yours), exists in high or very high frequencies in all of Western Europe from Spain in the south to the British Isles and western Scandinavia in the north. It appears that approximately 2.5% in Western European males share this most common genetic 12 marker signature and because of its very high frequency we always suggest that for genealogy purposes people in this group should only use our 25 or 37 marker test for their genealogy.

              Anthropologists have been describing for many years that only a select % of all the males in past societies did the vast majority of fathering, while other males lost the opportunity to pass on their Y-Chromosomal genes.

              On a lighter note it’s clear that R1b’s Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype has contributed much more than its ‘fair share’ in populating Western Europe.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Rick
                On a lighter note it’s clear that R1b’s Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype has contributed much more than its ‘fair share’ in populating Western Europe.
                That adds a whole new twist to the expression, "WAMH! Bam! Thank you, Ma'm."

                And here I thought that was supposed to be spelled w-h-a-m!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Rick
                  I'm a match. Here's what FTDNA has to say when I click the WAMH icon on my personal results page:


                  The Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype is the most common Y-DNA signature of Europe’s most common Haplogroup, R1b. Simply put your ancestors have experienced a dramatic population explosion over the past 10,000 years, probably since the end of the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM-that’s Anthropology-speak for the last Ice Age) that covered most of Europe beginning 20,000 years ago and lasting for 10,000 long cold winters.

                  R1b, and its most common Haplotype (yours), exists in high or very high frequencies in all of Western Europe from Spain in the south to the British Isles and western Scandinavia in the north. It appears that approximately 2.5% in Western European males share this most common genetic 12 marker signature and because of its very high frequency we always suggest that for genealogy purposes people in this group should only use our 25 or 37 marker test for their genealogy.

                  Anthropologists have been describing for many years that only a select % of all the males in past societies did the vast majority of fathering, while other males lost the opportunity to pass on their Y-Chromosomal genes.

                  On a lighter note it’s clear that R1b’s Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype has contributed much more than its ‘fair share’ in populating Western Europe.
                  Rick,
                  What does the icon look like? Is it just the letters W-A-M-H? Are you an exact match or are you plus or minus 1 at certain loci? I e-mailed FTDNA and they said that there are icons for WAMH, Cohen Match, Niall of the Nine Hostages Match, and Genghis Khan Match.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by R2-D2
                    Rick,
                    What does the icon look like? Is it just the letters W-A-M-H? Are you an exact match or are you plus or minus 1 at certain loci? I e-mailed FTDNA and they said that there are icons for WAMH, Cohen Match, Niall of the Nine Hostages Match, and Genghis Khan Match.

                    I'm not able to copy it, but it is just a small square at the top of my personal results homepage that says "WAMH Match". When I click it I'm taken to a page that has the text I posted earlier. Yes, I'm a 12/12 match with this haplotype 13-24-14-11-11-14-12-12-12-13-13-29. I have over 800 12/12 y-dna matches, which I think well attests to this haplotype's abundance. However, at 25 and 37 markers I don't have so many matches. In fact at 37, my closest match is 32/37, and most of my closest 37-marker matches seem to be in the Anglo-Saxon, Frisian, S21+ groups. So, I'm not perfectly confident in the WAMH designation. I've ordered the S-series tests, which may help clear things up....or not.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Rick

                      You are a WAMH. You can be confident of that. Your 800+ 12/12 matches are proof of that. But, the availability of more markers has shown that WAHM has many subclades.

                      By the way, one of my family who is an R1b1c has no 12 marker matches.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by genny
                        Rick

                        You are a WAMH. You can be confident of that. Your 800+ 12/12 matches are proof of that. But, the availability of more markers has shown that WAHM has many subclades.

                        By the way, one of my family who is an R1b1c has no 12 marker matches.

                        Genny, Yes, if modal R1b1c*=WAMH, then I'm confident I am one. But if WAMH denotes only that part of R1b1c* found predominantly along the Atlantic seaboard of Europe that predominates in places like Iberia and Ireland, then I'm not so sure. My first 12 markers as mentioned match the WAMH, as it is defined by FTDNA, but my next 25 look more like the Northern Germanic/Baltic variety that is characterized by the S21+ mutation (R1b1c9), which is estimated by some to pre-date the last glacial maximum, and which apparently is not found indigenously in Iberia or Ireland. In any case I've ordered the S21 test, so I'll know (maybe) soon enough. Cheers, Rick

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rick
                          Genny, Yes, if modal R1b1c*=WAMH, then I'm confident I am one. But if WAMH denotes only that part of R1b1c* found predominantly along the Atlantic seaboard of Europe that predominates in places like Iberia and Ireland, then I'm not so sure. My first 12 markers as mentioned match the WAMH, as it is defined by FTDNA, but my next 25 look more like the Northern Germanic/Baltic variety that is characterized by the S21+ mutation (R1b1c9), which is estimated by some to pre-date the last glacial maximum, and which apparently is not found indigenously in Iberia or Ireland. In any case I've ordered the S21 test, so I'll know (maybe) soon enough. Cheers, Rick
                          If I were a betting man, Rick, I would put money on S21+ for you.

                          Just a hunch. (Based on our recent playing around with the slow-mutators, that is!)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            WAMH question

                            Does a WAMH match mean more likely genetic roots in Spain/Portugal or England/Ireland/Scotland/Wales and less likely genetic roots in Germany, France, Italy, Scandanavia or the Baltic area?

                            Lloyd Appel
                            R1b

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by lapp15
                              Does a WAMH match mean more likely genetic roots in Spain/Portugal or England/Ireland/Scotland/Wales and less likely genetic roots in Germany, France, Italy, Scandanavia or the Baltic area?

                              Lloyd Appel
                              R1b
                              I'm not really sure. My impression is that WAMH is pretty widespread throughout Europe and that matches are plentiful from Iceland and Greenland and Scandinavia to Greece and from Portugal to Russia.

                              I've only got eight 12-marker matches, which is pretty low for an R1b1c, but I'm 13 mismatches off WAMH.

                              Comment

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