DNA Tribes(Cherokee)?

[DMac]

I actually live in Stafford County, right off 17. We just bought a house in Spotsylvania County, though. We close on July 12, God willing, so we'll be moving soon but not too far down the road.

Good luck with the closing. A couple of more moves in my direction should place you in my neck of the woods...just south of the ol' Capital city.

I hate moving so I'll not offer to help.

[Stevo]

Good luck with the closing. A couple of more moves in my direction should place you in my neck of the woods...just south of the ol' Capital city.

We're inching our way south, it's true, but I can't afford to go too much further in that direction: I work up in the D.C. area.

I hate moving so I'll not offer to help.

I don't blame you. I hate moving, too.

I wish I had the money to just leave everything here and buy new stuff.

[Pleroma]

more Black Dutch info

The previous website I posted seemed to offer a comprehensive list of every possibility, however for those of you with a less than "wild" disposition, there is always this essay entitled "The Black Dutch, German Gypsies or Chicanere and their relation to the Melungeon."

http://sciway3.net/clark/freemoors/Patrin1.htm


For anyone interested in Melungeon ancestry, there is also a Melungeon DNA Surname Project:

http://www.melungeons.com/articles/m...dnaproject.htm

[shoshone]

RE: Test is too broad

In my opinion this test dosen't tell you much. It tell you all the people in the world you could or could have been related to in a big circle. All populations and subgroups are not represented. One thing is just shows all people are related somewhere along the line but this test is a mess in my opinion. Some of the results are just to vague. I mean people have had other reliable DnA test and traced thier genealogcy accurately this comes up with something totally different throwing them completeley off.

Got my results back and was surprised to see what it showed. First off we have Native American (Southeastern Tribes) on a couple of maternal lines and Black Dutch on both maternal and paternal. DNA Print showed 92% Indo-European and 8% East-Asian.
DNA Tribes Global Match was in this order: Pallar (India) 20, Germany 10.9, Albanian 8.5, Lombardia (Italy)7.9, Norwegian 7.8, Japanese 7.7, Caucasian 7.5, Asian (Australia) 7.3, and more Asian, Turkish, Flemish, and Japanese in the 6 and 5 range. Continent Match (highest score possible is 5) was Asia Minor 4.4, South Asian 3.8, East Asian 2.3, European 1.8, Arabian 1.4, Malay Archipelago (Malaysia) 1.3, North African 1.1, North Indian 0.9, Latin American 0.2.
Have heard theories of Black Dutch sometimes being used by Romanian Gypsies who moved to the U.S. They originated in India and then went west to Romania and then across Europe. Have a genealogy paper trail with no Asian ancestors for over 15 generations.
Is it possible that the Asian could actually be Native American? Found that DNA Tribes does not have Cherokee or other southeast tribes in their data base (except for Lumbee).

[Noaide]

I agree, at least with the current populations and analysis algorythm.

I am a northern Scandinavian, still the analysis suggest I am of mixed Sub-Saharan (1st) and European anchestry(2nd) opposite to many continental Europeans who often get matches with populations in the Iran/Pakistan/India region or even further east, and I have the best match with the Lumbee people in South Carolina in the US. Of course I then wonder what the results means, it is obviously not very good for geneology.

Noaide

In my opinion this test dosen't tell you much. It tell you all the people in the world you could or could have been related to in a big circle. All populations and subgroups are not represented. One thing is just shows all people are related somewhere along the line but this test is a mess in my opinion. Some of the results are just to vague. I mean people have had other reliable DnA test and traced thier genealogcy accurately this comes up with something totally different throwing them completeley off.

[tomcat]

Got my results back and was surprised to see what it showed. First off we have Native American (Southeastern Tribes) on a couple of maternal lines and Black Dutch on both maternal and paternal. DNA Print showed 92% Indo-European and 8% East-Asian.
DNA Tribes Global Match was in this order: Pallar (India) 20, Germany 10.9, Albanian 8.5, Lombardia (Italy)7.9, Norwegian 7.8, Japanese 7.7, Caucasian 7.5, Asian (Australia) 7.3, and more Asian, Turkish, Flemish, and Japanese in the 6 and 5 range. Continent Match (highest score possible is 5) was Asia Minor 4.4, South Asian 3.8, East Asian 2.3, European 1.8, Arabian 1.4, Malay Archipelago (Malaysia) 1.3, North African 1.1, North Indian 0.9, Latin American 0.2.
Have heard theories of Black Dutch sometimes being used by Romanian Gypsies who moved to the U.S. They originated in India and then went west to Romania and then across Europe. Have a genealogy paper trail with no Asian ancestors for over 15 generations.
Is it possible that the Asian could actually be Native American? Found that DNA Tribes does not have Cherokee or other southeast tribes in their data base (except for Lumbee).

What were your Native match scores?
Were you matched to Lumbee?
It is possible that Native allele values within your overall profile are tilting that profile to matches with present-day Asian populations
But, with a Native American genealogy I would expect you would have more matches to American "mestizo" populations in Global.

Not all slaves or servants "of color" brought to the Americas by the colonizers were of African ancestry. Although African slaves were, by far, the most numerous. Europeans took and traded slaves from all over the world.

Tom

[Black Dutch]

What were your Native match scores?
Were you matched to Lumbee?
It is possible that Native allele values within your overall profile are tilting that profile to matches with present-day Asian populations
But, with a Native American genealogy I would expect you would have more matches to American "mestizo" populations in Global.

Not all slaves or servants "of color" brought to the Americas by the colonizers were of African ancestry. Although African slaves were, by far, the most numerous. Europeans took and traded slaves from all over the world.

Tom

Did not show any matches to Lumbee either. I am thinking of testing more family members when I can afford it.

[tomcat]

Don't know if this will be of any use to you, but you can run your DNAT/CODIS markers through other databases ...

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police have results for several Native and African American populations at -

www.csfs.ca/pplus/profiler.htm

The Europeans have a different set of forensic markers but you can run most of your's at -

www.str-base.org

And you can download the Omnipop spreadsheet and database at the FBI site.

You can post your results and read of others' experience with DNATribes at Chas. Kirchner's site -

www.dnatribeslog.org

Tom

[Black Dutch]

[QUOTE=tomcat]Don't know if this will be of any use to you, but you can run your DNAT/CODIS markers through other databases ...

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police have results for several Native and African American populations at -[QUOTE]

I tried the RCMP that also includes data from the FBI. I assume the probability numbers I would need to look at would be the lower ratios. Don't understand the coding that follows the numbers, i.e. "E26". Can someone assist me to see if I am reading properly.

The lowest 4 were:
ABD Caucasian 1 in 1.13E26
FBI African-American 1 in 1.14E19
FBI Apache 1 in 1.40E20
CFS East Indian 1 in 1.75E16

[tomcat]

I think your best "matches" in the list is East Indian followed by African American, Apache and Caucasian - in that order.

The E number is "shorthand" for an exponent. To convert a result (Caucasian 1.13E26) into a real number, you make 1.13 113 then put 25 (one less than E of 26) in front of 113 = .0000000000000000000000000113.

Your chance of finding a match in the Caucasian sample is 1 in .0000000000000000000000000113.
Whereas your chance of being matched in the East Indian sample is 1 in .000000000000000175.

So even though your likelihood of finding an exact match in the population sampled is very small (hence the value of CODIS in forensics - that everyone does have a unique DNA "fingerprint") the possibility of some matches are more likely than others.

RCMP also shows frequency "values" for each allele in the population sampled but these numbers are multiplied by one another to arrive at a frequency for the pair - all markers have a pair of alleles. Nevertheless, you can see in this that all the sampled populations have the same alleles but that some are more frequent in some populations than others.

I am paraphrasing someone who actually understands statistics, and apologize for any inelegance, error or omission.

Tom

[ntxcousin]

Black Dutch

There is also a Melungeon website that explains the term "Black Dutch as well. One of my female ancestors is described in a family letter as being "Black Dutch". The surname associated with her is also a surname that is listed as being a common surname used by people considered to be in the Melungeon ethnic group in North Carolina and Tennessee.

[Black Dutch]

I think your best "matches" in the list is East Indian followed by African American, Apache and Caucasian - in that order.

The E number is "shorthand" for an exponent. To convert a result (Caucasian 1.13E26) into a real number, you make 1.13 113 then put 25 (one less than E of 26) in front of 113 = .0000000000000000000000000113.

Your chance of finding a match in the Caucasian sample is 1 in .0000000000000000000000000113.
Whereas your chance of being matched in the East Indian sample is 1 in .000000000000000175.

So even though your likelihood of finding an exact match in the population sampled is very small (hence the value of CODIS in forensics - that everyone does have a unique DNA "fingerprint") the possibility of some matches are more likely than others.

RCMP also shows frequency "values" for each allele in the population sampled but these numbers are multiplied by one another to arrive at a frequency for the pair - all markers have a pair of alleles. Nevertheless, you can see in this that all the sampled populations have the same alleles but that some are more frequent in some populations than others.

I am paraphrasing someone who actually understands statistics, and apologize for any inelegance, error or omission.

Tom

Found another database from Govt. Biotech that refers to RCMP also as their source for 2 alleles, FGA and D21S11. I found that on my D21S11 my allele #2 shows 30 which they give around a 0.343 to Aboriginal Saskatchewan which seems very high in retrospect. That is only reference I have to Native American and don't know how well it stands based on one allele.

[tomcat]

Found another database from Govt. Biotech that refers to RCMP also as their source for 2 alleles, FGA and D21S11. I found that on my D21S11 my allele #2 shows 30 which they give around a 0.343 to Aboriginal Saskatchewan which seems very high in retrospect. That is only reference I have to Native American and don't know how well it stands based on one allele.

.343 is a pretty good score. What did you get for a score on your overall profile when you ran all your alleles through RCMP? And did you run your alleles against all available population samples?

Tom

PS - All the RCMP Native samples are out-of-area for Cherokee. But Cherokee are Iroquoian and I imagine at least one of the RCMP Native samples is also Iroquoian. See what you can find-out.

[Black Dutch]

[QUOTE=tomcat].343 is a pretty good score. What did you get for a score on your overall profile when you ran all your alleles through RCMP? And did you run your alleles against all available population samples?

Tom

My RCMP score was:
Combined Caucasian 1 in 5.76E15
Japanese 1 in 1.31E18
Ontario Native 1 in 7.65E18
Sask. Native 1 in 7.16E17
Salishan Native 1 in 1.36E18
African 1 in 8.51E17

[tomcat]

Black Dutch wrote -
"
My RCMP score was:
Combined Caucasian 1 in 5.76E15
Japanese 1 in 1.31E18
Ontario Native 1 in 7.65E18
Sask. Native 1 in 7.16E17
Salishan Native 1 in 1.36E18
African 1 in 8.51E17
"

So in the RCMP universe you are most likely Caucasian followed by African American and then by Saskatchewan Native and then, more-or-less equally, by Ontario Native and Salishan Native. You are least likely to be Japanese.

Is that the way you read it?

My results in the RCMP universe (leaving-out all Asian samples) was -

FBI Caucasian 1 in 2.70E14
RCMP Caucas 1 in 1.54E14
CFS Causcasia 1 in 1.30E14

RCMP Tx Afr-A 1 in 8.43E16
RCMP Saskatc 1 in 5.84E16
FBI Afr-Americ 1 in 3.32E16

RCMP Salishan 1 in 2.99E17
RCMP N.Ontario 1 in 1.01E17

And on partial results -

ABD Caucasian 1 in 1.65E24
ABD Afr-Ameri 1 in 7.04E26

Raw data sets for all samples are available on that site.

Tom