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Which Gedmatch Admixture do you use to find Sephardic roots?

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  • Which Gedmatch Admixture do you use to find Sephardic roots?

    Which Gedmatch Admixture should you use?

    In trying to research potential Sephardic roots I used the Gedmatch Dodecad Africa 9 (Oracle 4) on the basis that my gggmother lived in Algeciras and worked in Gibraltar so a North African biased admixture would be a good fit.
    Is that a reasonable assumption? Are the generations quite recent?

    Results were:

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% French_Basque +50% North_African_Jews_Dodecad @ 4.768189


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% French_Basque +25% Libya +25% Tuscan @ 4.336068


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    +++++++++++++++
    1 Egypt + French_Basque + French_Basque + Morocco_Jews @ 3.719753
    2 French_Basque + French_Basque + Libya + Tuscan @ 4.336068
    3 Egyptans + French_Basque + French_Basque + Morocco_Jews @ 4.476022
    4 French_Basque + French_Basque + North_African_Jews_Dodecad + North_African_Jews_Dodecad @ 4.768189
    5 French_Basque + French_Basque + Libya + Morocco_Jews @ 4.857472
    6 French_Basque + Libya + North_Italian + North_Italian @ 4.874359
    7 Egypt + French_Basque + French_Basque + North_African_Jews_Dodecad @ 5.005029
    8 French_Basque + French_Basque + Morocco_Jews + North_African_Jews_Dodecad @ 5.078383
    9 Druze + French_Basque + French_Basque + North_African_Dodecad @ 5.131461
    10 French_Basque + North_African_Dodecad + North_Italian + Tuscan @ 5.227665
    11 French_Basque + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews + North_Italian @ 5.417712
    12 French_Basque + North_African_Dodecad + North_Italian + North_Italian @ 5.470325
    13 French_Basque + French_Basque + Libya + North_African_Jews_Dodecad @ 5.504620
    14 French_Basque + North_African_Dodecad + Tuscan + Tuscan @ 5.515823
    15 French_Basque + French_Basque + Jordanians + Morocco_Jews @ 5.548583
    16 French_Basque + French_Basque + Libya + North_Italian @ 5.749614
    17 Egyptans + French_Basque + French_Basque + North_African_Jews_Dodecad @ 5.801985
    18 Egypt + French_Basque + North_Italian + North_Italian @ 5.910541
    19 French_Basque + French_Basque + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews @ 6.048207
    20 French_Basque + Libya + North_Italian + Tuscan @ 6.124488

  • #2
    I don't know which one specifically to use. I just personally click around until I find the closest distance

    From main screen, click on

    - Admixture/Oracle with Population Search
    then simply key in
    - Jew
    and hit enter

    It will list about 50 different Jewish populations and which project to test your DNA kit to see them.

    See which one you come closest to in distance.

    There is also a spreadsheet with different populations but not all the Jewish populations are listed.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...82Hcf/pubhtml#

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Malo View Post
      Which Gedmatch Admixture do you use to find Sephardic roots?
      None can tell you this reliably.
      Instead, you should look for any Sephardic matches!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by khazaria View Post
        None can tell you this reliably.
        Instead, you should look for any Sephardic matches!
        Agree with Khazaria. FF's My Origins has a Sephardic reference group but it is of questionable value. North African Jews may serve as a proxy for Sephardics. What does Gedmatch Eurogenes show.

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't know if I can believe it.

          I have a 2017 myOrigins Chart which shows me as 76% British, 11% East Europe and 10% Sephardic with trace results for SE Europe and West Africa. This was a change from my 2016 myOrigins chart which has me at 94% European and 5% elsewhere in the Middle East and Africa.

          I can find no precedent relative going back to my 4th great grandparents who were Jewish in any way. And, descendants of those relatives of mine who have been autosome tested have all been shown to be non-Sephardic or Jewish in any way.

          FTDNA can not seem to give an answer to why the change. It simply says, that's the way it is from our calculations. If FTDNA has the ability to distinguish at the 10% level, it should I believe, be able to set up a comparison site where people who test as Jewish can immediately see who their matches are in this group and where in the chromosomes these matches are occurring.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by avujep View Post
            I have a 2017 myOrigins Chart which shows me as 76% British, 11% East Europe and 10% Sephardic with trace results for SE Europe and West Africa. This was a change from my 2016 myOrigins chart which has me at 94% European and 5% elsewhere in the Middle East and Africa.

            I can find no precedent relative going back to my 4th great grandparents who were Jewish in any way. And, descendants of those relatives of mine who have been autosome tested have all been shown to be non-Sephardic or Jewish in any way.

            FTDNA can not seem to give an answer to why the change. It simply says, that's the way it is from our calculations. If FTDNA has the ability to distinguish at the 10% level, it should I believe, be able to set up a comparison site where people who test as Jewish can immediately see who their matches are in this group and where in the chromosomes these matches are occurring.
            Do you have any Jewish matches. MO 2 Sephardic is of questionable validity at the 10% level. It is possible that Sephardic might be more valid at higher % levels (this appears to be the case with Ashkenazi levels) However, I am not aware of many individuals with higher Sephardic percentages.

            Comment


            • #7
              Which Gedmatch Admixture do you use to find Sephardic roots?

              Originally posted by josh w. View Post
              Agree with Khazaria. FF's My Origins has a Sephardic reference group but it is of questionable value. North African Jews may serve as a proxy for Sephardics. What does Gedmatch Eurogenes show.
              Eurogenes J Test shows no Ashkenazi as I would have expected.

              # Population Percent
              1 ATLANTIC 27.98
              2 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 27.81
              3 WEST_MED 13.45
              4 SOUTH_BALTIC 11.61
              5 EAST_EURO 9.75
              6 EAST_MED 8.27
              7 WEST_ASIAN 1.07
              8 SOUTH_ASIAN 0.06


              # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
              1 81.6% West_&_Central_German + 18.4% French_Basque @ 5.26
              2 78.9% English + 21.1% ES @ 5.29
              3 65.2% English + 34.8% FR @ 5.4
              4 79.5% English + 20.5% PT @ 5.44
              5 83.9% NL + 16.1% French_Basque @ 5.51
              6 83.8% English + 16.2% North_Italian @ 5.54
              7 94.5% Cornish + 5.5% Druze @ 5.54
              8 88% Cornish + 12% Tuscan @ 5.61
              9 78.8% NL + 21.2% ES @ 5.62
              10 86.9% English + 13.1% Tuscan @ 5.63
              11 51.7% FR + 48.3% DK @ 5.65
              12 86.4% English + 13.6% French_Basque @ 5.67
              13 66.5% DK + 33.5% ES @ 5.71
              14 64.5% NL + 35.5% FR @ 5.72
              15 70.8% Cornish + 29.2% FR @ 5.75
              16 93.7% English + 6.3% Sardinian @ 5.75
              17 83.9% Cornish + 16.1% PT @ 5.77
              18 87.1% Cornish + 12.9% North_Italian @ 5.78
              19 94.6% English + 5.4% Druze @ 5.79
              20 95.3% Cornish + 4.7% Samaritan @ 5.81

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Malo View Post
                Eurogenes J Test shows no Ashkenazi as I would have expected.

                # Population Percent
                1 ATLANTIC 27.98
                2 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 27.81
                3 WEST_MED 13.45
                4 SOUTH_BALTIC 11.61
                5 EAST_EURO 9.75
                6 EAST_MED 8.27
                7 WEST_ASIAN 1.07
                8 SOUTH_ASIAN 0.06


                # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
                1 81.6% West_&_Central_German + 18.4% French_Basque @ 5.26
                2 78.9% English + 21.1% ES @ 5.29
                3 65.2% English + 34.8% FR @ 5.4
                4 79.5% English + 20.5% PT @ 5.44
                5 83.9% NL + 16.1% French_Basque @ 5.51
                6 83.8% English + 16.2% North_Italian @ 5.54
                7 94.5% Cornish + 5.5% Druze @ 5.54
                8 88% Cornish + 12% Tuscan @ 5.61
                9 78.8% NL + 21.2% ES @ 5.62
                10 86.9% English + 13.1% Tuscan @ 5.63
                11 51.7% FR + 48.3% DK @ 5.65
                12 86.4% English + 13.6% French_Basque @ 5.67
                13 66.5% DK + 33.5% ES @ 5.71
                14 64.5% NL + 35.5% FR @ 5.72
                15 70.8% Cornish + 29.2% FR @ 5.75
                16 93.7% English + 6.3% Sardinian @ 5.75
                17 83.9% Cornish + 16.1% PT @ 5.77
                18 87.1% Cornish + 12.9% North_Italian @ 5.78
                19 94.6% English + 5.4% Druze @ 5.79
                20 95.3% Cornish + 4.7% Samaritan @ 5.81
                Actually, your profile suggests some Levantine ancestry although it is not a major component. You have 8% eastern Med. Levantine groups such as Samaritans and Druze appear in your Oracles. I don't know where the Druze were tested but Samaritans live in Israel. Historically they were Jews despite the Bible's position.

                What about matches.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by josh w. View Post
                  Actually, your profile suggests some Levantine ancestry although it is not a major component. You have 8% eastern Med. Levantine groups such as Samaritans and Druze appear in your Oracles. I don't know where the Druze were tested but Samaritans live in Israel. Historically they were Jews despite the Bible's position.

                  What about matches.
                  There are signs of Levantine ancestry at Eurogenes. Don't know about Jewish ancestry. However Dodecad points to North African Jews. The common denominator may be Canaanite. A Lebanese study for National Geographic found that Ashkenazis were similar to Lebanese Druze.
                  Last edited by josh w.; 13th January 2018, 07:06 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Which Gedmatch Admixture do you use to find Sephardic roots?

                    Originally posted by josh w. View Post
                    Actually, your profile suggests some Levantine ancestry although it is not a major component. You have 8% eastern Med. Levantine groups such as Samaritans and Druze appear in your Oracles. I don't know where the Druze were tested but Samaritans live in Israel. Historically they were Jews despite the Bible's position.

                    What about matches.
                    Hi Josh and thank you for your help.

                    Regarding matches, I am currently limited to Genesis beta until my FTDNA results come in but I notice that any top matches that I have had (70cM plus) almost always have at least 10% plus Ashkenazi. In addition, there are many lower order matches who seem to have Sephardic names (Nunes, Garza, Jiminez, Vasquez, Perez (10+), Oliveria, Flores etc) but I haven't checked out their ethnicities and to be honest at this stage of my genetic learning, I don't really know what I'm looking at!

                    When looking at all the various admixtures I seem to get a picture of migration from the Middle East, along the North African coast towards Morocco presumably onto Spain and then back again - which would make sense but who knows.
                    Last edited by Malo; 14th January 2018, 07:43 AM. Reason: Error

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Which Gedmatch Admixture do you use to find Sephardic roots?

                      Thank you RebeccaR and Khazaria for your help

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Malo View Post
                        Hi Josh and thank you for your help.

                        Regarding matches, I am currently limited to Genesis beta until my FTDNA results come in but I notice that any top matches that I have had (70cM plus) almost always have at least 10% plus Ashkenazi. In addition, there are many lower order matches who seem to have Sephardic names (Nunes, Garza, Jiminez, Vasquez, Perez (10+), Oliveria, Flores etc) but I haven't checked out their ethnicities and to be honest at this stage of my genetic learning, I don't really know what I'm looking at!

                        When looking at all the various admixtures I seem to get a picture of migration from the Middle East, along the North African coast towards Morocco presumably onto Spain and then back again - which would make sense but who knows.
                        Malo, the situation is quite complex. Some North African Jews are Sephardics who fled Spain. In addition, some Sephardics migrated east eventually to Poland, the Ukraine and the former USSR. I always thought that I was Ashkenazi but I have Ftdna de la Garza matches from Nuevo Leon in Mexico. They have a written history. De la Garza is a Mexican modification of Garza from Cadiz. To complicate matters, it is not easy to separate Ashkenazi and Sephardic dna lines---see Atzmon (2010)+

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You're welcome Malo. I'm just a noob but still trying to help Whatever the more experienced members say, listen to them. Have you run the Gedrosia Ancient Eurasia K6 project on GEDMatch?

                          If there's something it might show up there. It did for my Uncle.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by josh w. View Post
                            Malo, the situation is quite complex. Some North African Jews are Sephardics who fled Spain. In addition, some Sephardics migrated east eventually to Poland, the Ukraine and the former USSR. I always thought that I was Ashkenazi but I have Ftdna de la Garza matches from Nuevo Leon in Mexico. They have a written history. De la Garza is a Mexican modification of Garza from Cadiz. To complicate matters, it is not easy to separate Ashkenazi and Sephardic dna lines---see Atzmon (2010)+
                            P.S. Khazaria pointed me to the de la Garza connection.

                            Atzmon found that Druze were in a cluster that connected Syrian Jews,Sephardim and Ashkenazim. It was somewhat separate from other Mizrachi groups.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Which Gedmatch Admixture do you use to find Sephardic roots?

                              Originally posted by RebeccaR View Post
                              You're welcome Malo. I'm just a noob but still trying to help Whatever the more experienced members say, listen to them. Have you run the Gedrosia Ancient Eurasia K6 project on GEDMatch?

                              If there's something it might show up there. It did for my Uncle.
                              Gedrosia Ancient showed nothing along those lines however when I looked at PuntDNAL K12 Modern I see some Ashkenazi:

                              1 86.2% Norwegian + 13.8% Ashkenazi_Jew @ 1.44
                              2 77% Swedish + 23% Tuscan @ 1.46
                              3 80.8% Norwegian + 19.2% Albanian @ 1.47
                              4 82% Norwegian + 18% Greek @ 1.47
                              5 81.1% Irish + 18.9% Romanian @ 1.49
                              6 75% Swedish + 25% Albanian @ 1.49
                              7 77.9% Belgian + 22.1% Estonian @ 1.5
                              8 72.4% Belgian + 27.6% Belarusian @ 1.52
                              9 78.8% Belgian + 21.2% Lithuanian @ 1.52
                              10 76.4% Swedish + 23.6% Greek @ 1.53
                              11 62.5% Belgian + 37.5% Icelandic @ 1.53
                              12 86.6% Norwegian + 13.4% Sicilian_East @ 1.54
                              13 61.9% Norwegian + 38.1% Romanian @ 1.54
                              14 82.6% Utahn_European + 17.4% Belarusian @ 1.54
                              15 82.6% Norwegian + 17.4% Tuscan @ 1.56
                              16 60.6% Utahn_European + 39.4% Czech @ 1.57
                              17 94.5% Irish + 5.5% Ashkenazi_Jew @ 1.57
                              18 82.1% Irish + 17.9% Croatian @ 1.58
                              19 51.8% Czech + 48.2% German_South @ 1.58
                              20 90% Norwegian + 10% Cypriot @ 1.58

                              I don't know if everyone has the same issue when they look at all their various admixtures but I see very little continuity in mine! This could be an indication of my very transient and mobile ancestors I guess.

                              And finally MDLP WORLD 22


                              # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
                              1 92.6% Welsh (derived) + 7.4% Jew-Iran (derived) @ 1.3
                              2 76.5% Welsh (derived) + 23.5% Gagauz (derived) @ 1.33
                              3 92.5% Welsh (derived) + 7.5% Jew-Iraqi (derived) @ 1.34
                              4 92.4% Welsh (derived) + 7.6% Jew_Iraqi (derived) @ 1.34
                              5 92.4% Welsh (derived) + 7.6% Jew_Kurd (derived) @ 1.36
                              6 72.5% Welsh (derived) + 27.5% Bulgarian (derived) @ 1.39
                              7 92.3% Welsh (derived) + 7.7% Jew-Uzbekistan (derived) @ 1.41
                              8 92.2% Welsh (derived) + 7.8% Jew_Georgia (derived) @ 1.41
                              9 92.5% Welsh (derived) + 7.5% Jew_Tat (derived) @ 1.43
                              10 91.9% Welsh (derived) + 8.1% Syrian (derived) @ 1.48
                              11 92.5% Welsh (derived) + 7.5% Jew_Azerbaijan (derived) @ 1.48
                              12 68.7% Welsh (derived) + 31.3% Macedonian (derived) @ 1.5
                              13 91.9% Welsh (derived) + 8.1% Druze (derived) @ 1.5
                              14 91.6% Welsh (derived) + 8.4% Lebanese (derived) @ 1.5
                              15 92.1% Welsh (derived) + 7.9% Iraqi (derived) @ 1.51
                              16 88.4% Welsh (derived) + 11.6% Greek_Azov (derived) @ 1.61
                              17 92.4% Welsh (derived) + 7.6% Iranian (derived) @ 1.74
                              18 91% Welsh (derived) + 9% Turk (derived) @ 1.74
                              19 63.8% CEU (derived) + 36.2% Serbian (derived) @ 1.75
                              20 92.7% Welsh (derived) + 7.3% Samaritian (derived) @ 1.75

                              I don't know where the Welsh came from and what 'derived' means.
                              Last edited by Malo; 14th January 2018, 11:38 AM. Reason: Addition

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