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Father / Son Y DNA Haplogroup

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  • Father / Son Y DNA Haplogroup

    I thought (and was told by mother) that my father was a Nugent. However, after receiving results from Y DNA test, the earliest known ancestors are named Flowers. Also, all of the match names (except for two) in the Name column on the left are Flowers. My Y DNA Haplogroup is shown as J-M 172. Does this pretty much mean that I am a Flowers or that my father was really a Flowers instead of a Nugent?

  • #2
    Originally posted by armay70809 View Post
    I thought (and was told by mother) that my father was a Nugent. However, after receiving results from Y DNA test, the earliest known ancestors are named Flowers. Also, all of the match names (except for two) in the Name column on the left are Flowers. My Y DNA Haplogroup is shown as J-M 172. Does this pretty much mean that I am a Flowers or that my father was really a Flowers instead of a Nugent?
    Not necessarily unless a Nugent from your father's line was known to have tested and there isn't a match. If no Nugent from your suspected father's line has tested then you will have to find one and recruit them to test. How close a match is the Flowers match?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by armay70809 View Post
      I thought (and was told by mother) that my father was a Nugent. However, after receiving results from Y DNA test, the earliest known ancestors are named Flowers. Also, all of the match names (except for two) in the Name column on the left are Flowers. My Y DNA Haplogroup is shown as J-M 172. Does this pretty much mean that I am a Flowers or that my father was really a Flowers instead of a Nugent?
      At what level of matching are you talking about - 12, 25, 37, 67 or 111 markers? The number of markers compared is an important factor in determining how significant a match and his surname are.
      Last edited by MMaddi; 31st July 2017, 11:20 AM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
        At what level of matching are you talking about - 12, 25, 37, 67 or 111 markers? The number of markers compared is an important factor in determining how significant a match and his surname are.
        37

        I would be his only son. 2 daughters. Never met him nor the Flowers.

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        • #5
          Distance

          Originally posted by travers View Post
          Not necessarily unless a Nugent from your father's line was known to have tested and there isn't a match. If no Nugent from your suspected father's line has tested then you will have to find one and recruit them to test. How close a match is the Flowers match?
          9 matches and 6 of them are Flowers. others are odd names. Distance is

          0
          1 Flowers
          1 Flowers
          1 Flowers
          2
          2 Flowers
          3 Flowers
          4
          4 Flowers

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          • #6
            67 markers

            To confirm how close the relationship is you need to get the 67 marker test.

            Some of my matches at 37 markers are a GD of 2 and at 67 markers drop to 5 and are not matches at 111 markers

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            • #7
              Originally posted by jova99 View Post
              To confirm how close the relationship is you need to get the 67 marker test.

              Some of my matches at 37 markers are a GD of 2 and at 67 markers drop to 5 and are not matches at 111 markers
              If I do the 67, that could rule out Nugent as father? The Nugents have a different haplogroup for Y, but they do have ancestral trees, of course.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by armay70809 View Post
                9 matches and 6 of them are Flowers. others are odd names. Distance is

                0
                1 Flowers
                1 Flowers
                1 Flowers
                2
                2 Flowers
                3 Flowers
                4
                4 Flowers
                This should be further investigated. Matches that only differ at 1 or 2 markers at 37 markers may be significant.

                If any of the closest Flowers matches have tested to 67 markers, it would be worthwhile for you to upgrade to 67 markers and see how close they are at the higher level. (I'm assuming that you haven't tested 67 markers yet.) There is a sale that begins tomorrow and lasts until Aug. 31 that includes a reduced price for upgrading from 37 to 67 markers.

                Also, if you have a male cousin who is the son of your Nugent father's brothers, have him test to see if the two of you match. If not, then you are definitely not a Nugent and may be a Flowers.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
                  This should be further investigated. Matches that only differ at 1 or 2 markers at 37 markers may be significant.

                  If any of the closest Flowers matches have tested to 67 markers, it would be worthwhile for you to upgrade to 67 markers and see how close they are at the higher level. (I'm assuming that you haven't tested 67 markers yet.) There is a sale that begins tomorrow and lasts until Aug. 31 that includes a reduced price for upgrading from 37 to 67 markers.

                  Also, if you have a male cousin who is the son of your Nugent father's brothers, have him test to see if the two of you match. If not, then you are definitely not a Nugent and may be a Flowers.

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                  • #10
                    thanks for the info on the sale for the 67 marker starting tomorrow! I will try it. Nugent's father had two sons, but I doubt the son of my alleged father's brother would do test. So, I will do the 67 marker and see what happens.

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                    • #11
                      67 Marker

                      Currently, it says the 67 marker is discounted to $99 for upgrade.

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                      • #12
                        Exact Matches ???

                        Well now, here's something. Out of all of those Y DNA matches in the 37, there is one Flower that is labeled as an "Exact Match." What in the deuce does that mean as far as his relationship to me???

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by armay70809 View Post
                          Well now, here's something. Out of all of those Y DNA matches in the 37, there is one Flower that is labeled as an "Exact Match." What in the deuce does that mean as far as his relationship to me???
                          There's a good chance that you and he share a common paternal line ancestor in the last few generations. However, if he has tested 67 markers, you should upgrade and compare to him at 67 markers.

                          That would give you a better estimate of how closely you may be related. Basically, if you and he were to mismatch on 3 or less markers at 67 markers, it would make it more likely you share a common ancestor in the last few hundred years. The less mismatches you have, the more likely the common ancestor lived more recently.

                          Notice that I'm using words like "chance" and "more likely." The estimates of "time to most recent common ancestor" are based on average mutation rates. You and/or the match may have a higher or lower mutation rate than the average. So, you can't say exactly how recently a common ancestor lived based solely on the DNA match.

                          At that point, a close match at 67 markers is a clue to be investigated. Contact him and see if his father or grandfather or great-grandfather lived in the same area or even city where you were born or where your father or grandfather or great-grandfather were born. If your line and his line lived in the same city or area, that makes it more likely that you share a fairly recent common paternal line ancestor.

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                          • #14
                            Thanks for that explanation! The 67 marker has just been ordered on my end. I've been trying to contact him, but he hasn't been responding. If he does, those are great questions to ask.

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                            • #15
                              Y DNA

                              Well, just got the results back on the 67 markers. It still shows the name Flowers and no Nugents. We thought his father was a Nugent. We don't know the Nugents and cannot ask them to do a DNA test. same with Flowers. This is always true in cases of children born out of wedlock.

                              At a distance of 1
                              William Ray Flowers
                              Harley L. Flowers

                              Other Flowers at 3 and 4. No Nugents. I was expecting to see Edmund Duncan Nugent as a distant ancestor.

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