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R1b got messed up

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  • #16
    M343+, P25-

    My cousins's DNA sample is one of the M343+, P25-. Still awaiting the results of the M269 testing. Will post the results as soon as I get them.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by davis1946
      My cousins's DNA sample is one of the M343+, P25-. Still awaiting the results of the M269 testing. Will post the results as soon as I get them.
      Are they also testing for M18 & M73?

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      • #18
        DMac, the following is the message I received from FTDNA in regard to my inquiry. She just mentioned testing for M269. Right now they have him classified as R1b after he tested positive for M343. The test I ordered was the Y Hap Backbone test to find out which Haplogroup he belonged to because they were unable to predict his group after testing for 37 markers.


        "This result was not ready to be posted, since finding a person who is M343 and not P25 is so unusual. P25 may have reverted to its original result, in which case you may actually be R1b1 and not just R1b, and we are testing you for another SNP in order to determine whether this is the case. Nearly all European men who are R1b1 are R1b1c, which is defined by M269. We are submitting this sample to be tested for M269."

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        • #19
          Originally posted by davis1946
          DMac, the following is the message I received from FTDNA in regard to my inquiry. She just mentioned testing for M269. Right now they have him classified as R1b after he tested positive for M343. The test I ordered was the Y Hap Backbone test to find out which Haplogroup he belonged to because they were unable to predict his group after testing for 37 markers.


          "This result was not ready to be posted, since finding a person who is M343 and not P25 is so unusual. P25 may have reverted to its original result, in which case you may actually be R1b1 and not just R1b, and we are testing you for another SNP in order to determine whether this is the case. Nearly all European men who are R1b1 are R1b1c, which is defined by M269. We are submitting this sample to be tested for M269."
          Ah, they're testing for the most likely result. If he comes back negative for M269 you might want to ask about M18 & M73 to rule out R1b1a & R1b1b.

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          • #20
            Thanks

            DMac, I will keep that in mind.

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            • #21
              So the branch used to be M173 - P25 and now it's M173 - M343 - P25. Why did we miss M343 until now? It's always been there, being different from the ancestral M173 just as much as the P25 marker (except for those 23 guys talked about previously).

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              • #22
                Originally posted by argiedude
                Jesus, you don't see this crap happening with the biological naming system: panthera leo is the lion since the creation of the naming system by one single man 300 years ago.
                I assume you were making a joke here? The lion was Felis leo for 200 years. Only in 1980 did Kurten and Anderson reclassify it as Panthera leo. Similarly, the tiger, known for 200 years as Felis tigris, was reclassified as Panthera tigris.

                I guess someone finally noticed that although lions, tigers, leopards, and jaguars occasionally interbreed, none of them ever interbreeds successfully with a house cat! The house cat itself has apparently been mildly reclassified, by the way. It used to be known as Felis domesticus or Felis catus, but is now reportedly called Felis silvestris catus:

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat
                Last edited by lgmayka; 10 June 2006, 07:47 PM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by argiedude
                  So the branch used to be M173 - P25 and now it's M173 - M343 - P25. Why did we miss M343 until now? It's always been there, being different from the ancestral M173 just as much as the P25 marker (except for those 23 guys talked about previously).
                  Probably because it took some effort to pick out a single transposition or deletion in one of 23 million bases that have been sequenced on the Y-DNA. Once discovered you then need to determine where it sits in the grand scheme of things. Is it a private SNP unique to an individual or maybe very close relatives. Is it high up in the pecking order where the majority of human males have this particular SNP. It's estimated that there are many (don't remember the actual figure stated) more useful SNP's yet to be discovered.

                  Get used to the Phylogenetic tree changing. If there's any question of the nomenclature used, do as many do and name the relevant SNP's that have been tested.

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                  • #24
                    2 excellent observations, and I should have known better about felis/panthera leo, believe me.

                    Thanks guys, I'm up to date, now!

                    Also loved this link

                    http://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_YDNATreeTrunk.html

                    very good for keeping always up to date.

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                    • #25
                      And you're right, just naming the SNP of the branch is the surefire method, no wonder you see it so often.

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