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  • #16
    Now that is good news indeed!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by dentate
      I also suspect that there was more Sephardic migration into Eastern Europe following the Expulsion than is generally appreciated.
      From the statistic below, it appears that a large portion of the Sephardim found refuge in the Polish-Lithuanian-Belarusian-Ukrainian republic:

      http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...jw/Poland.html
      ---
      By the mid-16th century, eighty percent of the worldÂ’s Jews lived in Poland.
      ---

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      • #18
        Originally posted by dentate
        <<<clipped>>>

        I think it is likely that under-representation of Sephardim and overrepresenation of Ashkenazim is part of the explanation. I also suspect that there was more Sephardic migration into Eastern Europe following the Expulsion than is generally appreciated. Greenspan apparently expects a large Sephardic database to appear this fall (promises, promises!) and that after Doron Behar has published this, it will become incorporated into FTDNA.
        Some people seem to have the same opinion about Sephardic migration into Easter Europe, at least that's what the brief description of a lecture in the coming International Conference on Jewish Genealogy indicates.

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        • #19
          Greatly appreciate all the recent info. There is an additional problem in relying on self definititions which is the only option for Ftdna. There is no consensual definition of "Sephardic Jews". Technically the term applies to Jews from Spain (or Iberia). Some use the term to apply essentially to all non-Ashkenazi Jews. Yet others make a distinction between Sephardic (European-Mediterranian) and Oriental (non-European) Jews.

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          • #20
            We've actually found a large amount of matches in the YHRD.ORG database against those of our (R1b Jewish) project in Spain, Portugal and South America, with little or no hits among our 30+ participants throughout the rest of Western Europe.

            Considering the majority of our participants have their earliest known relatives marked as from the general area of the "Pale of Settlement", the area including the Ukraine, Lithuania, etc., which Jews were force to settle when they were kicked out of Mother Russia, and that there has been evidence of Sephardic migration Eastward following persecution, it certainly poses interesting questions. Further, Lithuania was at the time quite tolerant of Jews.

            Only 10% of Ashkenazi are R1b, while a portion of our participants (with DYS393=12) have matched with Cinnioglu's definition of an Eastern R1b that has the greatest genetic diversity in Anatolia (Turkey), Armenia, Iraq (particularly among the Kurds) and Southeastern Europe. At least six of these participants have a family oral tradition of being Cohane.

            We'll find out more when Dr. Behar publishes the results from the Sephardic database, but a lot of circumstantial evidence points to this possible link between certain R1b haplotypes and the Sephardim. Of particular note, there's enough genetic diversity among our groups, including the Cohanim, to perhaps hint that this isn't a recent admixture, but rather a portion could have ties to the ancient Hebrews.

            Again, pure conjecture, but its a fun theory to ponder.

            If you'd like to visit our project, as Ellen so wonderfully offered:
            http://www.familytreedna.com/public/JewishR1b

            And to read our discussions, visit:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JewishR1b

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            • #21
              Sephardim in South America

              Of particular note in regards to the South American matches in YHRD.ORG with the Jewish R1b...

              There is documented proof that Sephardim sought refuge from persecution in the New World, particularly among Spanish territories (namely South America).

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              • #22
                50-100 potential R1b SNPs

                Sean,

                Thanks for the link to the Jewish R1b project forum. I was particularly interested in your mention there that Bennett Greenspan thought that there may be as many as 50 to 100 R1b SNPs waiting to be discovered. Do you know if this means FTDNA/Hammer are actively seeking more to expand their deep clade coverage?

                --Rick

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Rick
                  Sean,

                  Thanks for the link to the Jewish R1b project forum. I was particularly interested in your mention there that Bennett Greenspan thought that there may be as many as 50 to 100 R1b SNPs waiting to be discovered. Do you know if this means FTDNA/Hammer are actively seeking more to expand their deep clade coverage?

                  --Rick
                  Unfortunately I'm not really privy to such information, but I wish I were! I am sure that down the line we'll learn far more about the R1b SNPs, but just as genetic genealogical is in its infancy in terms of a science, SNPs are even moreso.

                  Belatedly, I do apologize for not responding to you sooner, Rick, but my wife and I have just celebrated the birth of our second child, so I've been far too exhausted to wade through all my DNA-related digests and forums!

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                  • #24
                    Congratulations, Sean!!!

                    Originally posted by SeanMSilver
                    Belatedly, I do apologize for not responding to you sooner, Rick, but my wife and I have just celebrated the birth of our second child, so I've been far too exhausted to wade through all my DNA-related digests and forums!
                    Congratulations, Sean!

                    That is great news.

                    Boy or girl?

                    I hope mother and child are well.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Stevo
                      Congratulations, Sean!

                      That is great news.

                      Boy or girl?

                      I hope mother and child are well.
                      I realize your baby was a boy or a girl, Sean.

                      What I meant was: is it a boy, or is it a girl?

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                      • #26
                        Sean, Thanks for the reply...and no apology necessary! Hearty congratulations on the blessed event! Cheers, Rick

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                        • #27
                          Thanks for the well wishes, folks!

                          We had a little boy, actually! All births are special, but I'm guessing that this one has special significance for my father as he is the only grandchild among their eleven that will pass on our tradition.

                          For those who do not know, the Cohanim (the plural form of Cohane) are the Jewish priestly caste who are said to be paternally descended from Aaron, Moses' brother and the first Cohane Godal. Despite the question of the Cohane Modal Haplotype and my genetic markers being R1b, my family has a long oral tradition of being Cohane. The same is true for 5 other members of the R1b Jewish project, all of which have DYS393=12 and half of which have GATA H4=12, both o which are (seemingly significant) breaks from the modal. There also appears significant genetic diversity among those of DYS393=12, even among those with Cohanim tradition.

                          Quite the quandary, isn't it? I thought I'd pass on a bit of knowledge and genetic puzzling along with my response!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by SeanMSilver
                            Thanks for the well wishes, folks!

                            We had a little boy, actually! All births are special, but I'm guessing that this one has special significance for my father as he is the only grandchild among their eleven that will pass on our tradition.

                            For those who do not know, the Cohanim (the plural form of Cohane) are the Jewish priestly caste who are said to be paternally descended from Aaron, Moses' brother and the first Cohane Godal. Despite the question of the Cohane Modal Haplotype and my genetic markers being R1b, my family has a long oral tradition of being Cohane. The same is true for 5 other members of the R1b Jewish project, all of which have DYS393=12 and half of which have GATA H4=12, both o which are (seemingly significant) breaks from the modal. There also appears significant genetic diversity among those of DYS393=12, even among those with Cohanim tradition.

                            Quite the quandary, isn't it? I thought I'd pass on a bit of knowledge and genetic puzzling along with my response!
                            A boy!

                            Wonderful!

                            Congrats especially on doing your part to perpetuate our y-haplogroup!

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                            • #29
                              Wonderful news!!! Congratulations

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                              • #30
                                Thanks again, folks! Now all I have to do is wade through my 170+ DNA-related emails in the evening (when everyone's asleep) so I can finally catch up.

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