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  • #91
    My relative got 6 matches with Poland on the DNA Tribes test. Does this mean she is part Polish? As for me, I took the test and got a match with someone from the same town my dad was born in. So, I'm thinking the test might be right. My relative's father wrote some Polish names in a book before he died. Is this just a coincidence? Is it safe to believe her father was Polish?

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Stevo
      So how do you explain those Swedish researchers saying that R1b is one of the earliest major male lineages in Sweden, if R1b did not reach the Scandinavian Peninsula until after A.D. 500?
      It is called statistics, statistics are great but are no better than the data you input because the researchers dont have full overview of everything and where all these haplotypes originated and thus explaining the higher variation so there can be plenty of pitfalls, one of them immigration during the last one to two thousand years.

      Noaide

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Noaide
        It is called statistics, statistics are great but are no better than the data you input because the researchers dont have full overview of everything and where all these haplotypes originated and thus explaining the higher variation so there can be plenty of pitfalls, one of them immigration during the last one to two thousand years.

        Noaide
        It's called a result you and Eki do not like since it does not conform to your cherished notions.

        Still, the fact remains: Swedish researchers concluded that R1b was one of the earliest major male lineages in Sweden.

        But believe what you want.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by haplogroupc
          My relative got 6 matches with Poland on the DNA Tribes test. Does this mean she is part Polish? As for me, I took the test and got a match with someone from the same town my dad was born in. So, I'm thinking the test might be right. My relative's father wrote some Polish names in a book before he died. Is this just a coincidence? Is it safe to believe her father was Polish?
          Most of us in this forum have less knowledge of the autosomal DNA tests offered by DNA Tribes, than we do of the yDNA and mtDNA tests offered by Family Tree DNA. yDNA only checks the strict patrilineal line (father's father's father's father), but it can be very exact. mtDNA only checks the strict matrilineal line (mother's mother's mother's mother), and is less exact. Autosomal tests effectively look at all the ancestral lines at once, and are therefore not exact at all.

          I am curious about your match with someone from your father's ancestral town. Is this matching a service that DNA Tribes offers with autosomal testing?

          The bottom line here is that the autosomal test offered by DNA Tribes cannot assure you of anything. It is a great conversation starter, and can provide support to what you think you already know, but is simply not scientifically exact. That is why most of us in this forum prefer yDNA (and, secondarily, mtDNA) tests: Their results are narrower but highly specific.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by lgmayka
            Most of us in this forum have less knowledge of the autosomal DNA tests offered by DNA Tribes, than we do of the yDNA and mtDNA tests offered by Family Tree DNA. yDNA only checks the strict patrilineal line (father's father's father's father), but it can be very exact. mtDNA only checks the strict matrilineal line (mother's mother's mother's mother), and is less exact. Autosomal tests effectively look at all the ancestral lines at once, and are therefore not exact at all.

            I am curious about your match with someone from your father's ancestral town. Is this matching a service that DNA Tribes offers with autosomal testing?

            The bottom line here is that the autosomal test offered by DNA Tribes cannot assure you of anything. It is a great conversation starter, and can provide support to what you think you already know, but is simply not scientifically exact. That is why most of us in this forum prefer yDNA (and, secondarily, mtDNA) tests: Their results are narrower but highly specific.
            Hi lgmayka,

            Yes, the test that I took was the autosomal test from DNA Tribes. That's the test that matched me with someone from the same town and country that my dad was born in. He left his relatives there when he came to the U.S. That's what made me think the test is not so wrong after all. Also, as I mentioned before, my relative's father had written some Polish names in a book before he died and she got 6 matches with Poland. Just coincidence? Maybe the people in the book were relatives.

            I took the test out of curiousity. I had heard how unreliable it was but now that I got my results I'm wondering if there's some truth to the test.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by haplogroupc
              Yes, the test that I took was the autosomal test from DNA Tribes.
              Is your username in this forum literally correct? In other words, have you also taken a yDNA test and been told that you were of haplgroup C? Because that might mean you are a direct descendant of Genghis Khan or one of his warriors.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by lgmayka
                Is your username in this forum literally correct? In other words, have you also taken a yDNA test and been told that you were of haplgroup C? Because that might mean you are a direct descendant of Genghis Khan or one of his warriors.

                Hi lgmayka,

                The haplogroup C is mtDNA. I'm Native American. I'm female so I can't take the Y-DNA test.

                By the way, my relative who had 6 matches with Poland also has a Native American mtDNA haplogroup. She knows her Native American ancestry but the European ancestry is unclear. She took the DNA Tribes test to see if it would reveal it. They told her the Polish matches were ethnic Poles.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by haplogroupc
                  By the way, my relative who had 6 matches with Poland also has a Native American mtDNA haplogroup. She knows her Native American ancestry but the European ancestry is unclear. She took the DNA Tribes test to see if it would reveal it. They told her the Polish matches were ethnic Poles.
                  Well, the matches plus the book with Polish names that you mentioned sound like strong evidence--but not conclusive.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    y-dna and mtdna

                    (yDNA only checks the strict patrilineal line (father's father's father's father), but it can be very exact. mtDNA only checks the strict matrilineal line (mother's mother's mother's mother), and is less exact. Autosomal tests effectively look at all the ancestral lines at once, and are therefore not exact at all.)

                    its odd, some people put so much into the y-dna and mtdna tests and claim the they are exact like in the statement above, Remember the y-dna and mtdna for a genelogist is great, but it really only tells them 50 percent of the story so therefore cannot be said to be exact (well at 50 percent), well I guess from a genelogist point of view it is, with those two test a person could be really way off the mark. with the Autosomal test Quote (Autosomal tests effectively look at all the ancestral lines at once, and are therefore not exact at all.) maybe thats what people need, the whole picture all at once, because 50 percent is still 50 percent, while 100 percent of everything, is still 100 percent, so whats my point, for some people I would think the majority of people Autosomal testing is the way to go, because in the end game, its the best guess. now when they come up with a y-dna or mtdna test that shows the whole picture rather than half then I'll spend the money and get it all done.

                    Comment


                    • Ydna and Mtdna results combined actually describe less than 1% of your genetic lines. That is, they identify only one of your many of thousands of "grandmothers" and only one of your many of thousands of "grandfathers". All of the other lines are mixed (recombined) in your autosomes. However autusomal tests do not give a complete picture either, although they provide new information. Autosomal tests only cover a sample of all your autosomal genetic lines. For a variety of reasons (state of scientific knowledge, cost, amount of information to absorb) this is probably the most that can be done.
                      Last edited by josh w.; 31 May 2006, 11:28 AM.

                      Comment


                      • There seem to be other people elsewhere debating on the same subjects as me and Stevo have:

                        http://www.algebra.com/algebra/about...Cwen.wikipedia

                        "Let me correct some of what you are saying even if the subject is a bit off topic here.

                        First, today’s Norwegians are not equivalent with the Old Norse population. Norwegians today are descending from the Saami, the Cwens, immigrants from the European continent and all over the world, and a few Norwegians are descending from the Old Norse.

                        Referring to research done by Ole Jørgen Benedoctow: Most Old Norse people did not survive the Black Death (starting in the mid 1300 with the last victim in 1654, the majority of victims were in the more densely populated areas). In 1470 there was already 210.000 dead of a total Norwegian population of 350.000. Most of the survivors were in such weak condition after the plague that they could not even work for food. In Norwegian terms there was an immense immigration under and after the Black Plague for the most part of Dutch, Scots, German and Danes, and this explains the genetic homogeneity between some of the southern Norwegians and these European populations today. Immigration to Norway during the middle ages have been studied by the historian Erik Opsahl (Bind 1: Opsahl, Erik og Sogner, Sølvi: I kongens tid 900-1814( 2003))."

                        Comment


                        • Then, of course, there is that scientific study cited earlier in this thread by Mike Maddi. The Swedish researchers who conducted it concluded that R1b is one of the earliest major male lineages in Sweden.

                          Then there is the fact that continental Europe suffered severely from the Black Death and wasn't in much of a position in the 14th - 15th centuries to send masses of immigrants anywhere, least of all to another plague-ravaged land.

                          Those facts make the quote from the post above laughable.

                          We've been over this ground before.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Stevo
                            Then there is the fact that continental Europe suffered severely from the Black Death and wasn't in much of a position in the 14th - 15th centuries to send masses of immigrants anywhere, least of all to another plague-ravaged land.
                            But not as severely as the Norse. Could it be that immigrants brought the Black Death to Norway, and the native people didn't have as strong immunity against it? I think much of the Native Americans died because of diseases brought by Europeans who had better immunity against them. Maybe the same happened in Norway?

                            Comment


                            • There is another research paper about finnish y-dna suggesting something else:

                              "The most evident link to the Scandinavian region is the high frequency of haplogroup I1a only in Scandinavia (Rootsi et al., 2004) and Western Finland, where this haplogroup reaches its highest reported frequency of 40%. This suggests a major Swedish influence in the western parts of Finland. The low
                              frequency of R1b, the most common Y-chromosomal haplogroup in Western Europe, is intriguing, as it is considerably more common in Sweden (Tambets et al., 2004). This distribution pattern may indicate that the migrations bringing R1b to Scandinavia were relatively late and had only minor effect in Finland."

                              http://vetinari.sitesled.com/finns.pdf

                              Originally posted by Stevo
                              Then, of course, there is that scientific study cited earlier in this thread by Mike Maddi. The Swedish researchers who conducted it concluded that R1b is one of the earliest major male lineages in Sweden.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Noaide
                                There is another research paper about finnish y-dna suggesting something else:

                                "The most evident link to the Scandinavian region is the high frequency of haplogroup I1a only in Scandinavia (Rootsi et al., 2004) and Western Finland, where this haplogroup reaches its highest reported frequency of 40%. This suggests a major Swedish influence in the western parts of Finland. The low
                                frequency of R1b, the most common Y-chromosomal haplogroup in Western Europe, is intriguing, as it is considerably more common in Sweden (Tambets et al., 2004). This distribution pattern may indicate that the migrations bringing R1b to Scandinavia were relatively late and had only minor effect in Finland."

                                http://vetinari.sitesled.com/finns.pdf
                                That has been exactly been my main point all the time. Except I believe the I1a came to western Finland with people of Norwegian ancestry who came to Finland through Jämtland and Helsingland. As we know, Snorre tells that Jämtland and western parts were settled by people from the Trondheim area fleeing Harald Harfagre just like some people fled to Iceland. And researches have long believed that people from Helsingland moved to Uusimaa in southern Finland before the 13th century, hence the name of our capital Helsinki (Helsingfors in Swedish).

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