If YOU ARE ONE, BE ONE

[Stevo]

Glad to know the only I1a person in the Italy Project thus far

You know, your ancestor's place of origin was part of the Duchy of Benevento and mine was in the Duchy of Spoleto. May we be the descendents of the Lombard settlers?

That has occurred to me, too.

If so, you both have to grow long beards!

[F.E.C.]

Hey! That's me your talking about!

Glad to know the only I1a person in the Italy Project thus far

You know, your ancestor's place of origin was part of the Duchy of Benevento and mine was in the Duchy of Spoleto. May we be the descendents of the Lombard settlers?

[Stevo]

To me, one of the most enjoyable aspects to the "deep ancestry" aspect of genetic genealogy is that it draws me into the study of history. I am not normally a history buff, but the more I learn about my DNA the tighter my connection to certain parts of history becomes. My DNA leads me to discover and learn things I never would have otherwise.

I agree with you 100%.

Even if I don't have an ancestor 50 generations ago that served in the Roman legions (and really, what are the odds I could ever demonstrate it even if it were true, which it probably isn't), the mere possibility that I could have is fascinating.

I don't know; there's a strong likelihood, given what you posted before. That legion was there where your matches are, etc.

You can't prove it, but you can see it as a distinct possibility, and that is exciting, if you ask me.

[vineviz]

Of course, you know I was kidding around.

Yes, of course.

That is very cool, especially the part I bolded above.

It's nice to have some good, solid historical leads like that. Ever since I was a kid I've thought it would be awesome to know that one had an ancestor in the Roman legions.

To me, one of the most enjoyable aspects to the "deep ancestry" aspect of genetic genealogy is that it draws me into the study of history. I am not normally a history buff, but the more I learn about my DNA the tighter my connection to certain parts of history becomes. My DNA leads me to discover and learn things I never would have otherwise.

Even if I don't have an ancestor 50 generations ago that served in the Roman legions (and really, what are the odds I could ever demonstrate it even if it were true, which it probably isn't), the mere possibility that I could have is fascinating.

[Stevo]

Hey! That's me your talking about!

Of course, you know I was kidding around.

Yep, about 2.0% in central Italy according to Rootsi et al. I've been looking, and found only three Italian I1a haplotypes at ysearch and seven at SMGF.

My closest match at ysearch (genetic distance of 3) is from Germany, about halfway between Strasbourg and Mainz.

Fancifully, this was right on the Roman frontier, and the location of several Roman legions (including the Legio XIV, which participated in the Roman invasion of Britain) , around the time we would have shared an ancestor (if we did).

I also get a peculiar cluster of matches in YHRD in Slovakia and Hungary, curiously the home of the Legio XIV after it left Germania Superior.

Nordtvedt et al. consider my haplotype to be Anglo Saxon I1a.

That is very cool, especially the part I bolded above.

It's nice to have some good, solid historical leads like that. Ever since I was a kid I've thought it would be awesome to know that one had an ancestor in the Roman legions.

[vineviz]

There goes the neighborhood!

Hey! That's me your talking about!

I1a is relatively rare in Italy, isn't it?

Yep, about 2.0% in central Italy according to Rootsi et al. I've been looking, and found only three Italian I1a haplotypes at ysearch and seven at SMGF.

My closest match at ysearch (genetic distance of 3) is from Germany, about halfway between Strasbourg and Mainz.

Fancifully, this was right on the Roman frontier, and the location of several Roman legions (including the Legio XIV, which participated in the Roman invasion of Britain) , around the time we would have shared an ancestor (if we did).

I also get a peculiar cluster of matches in YHRD in Slovakia and Hungary, curiously the home of the Legio XIV after it left Germania Superior.

Nordtvedt et al. consider my haplotype to be Anglo Saxon I1a.

[Stevo]

Oh my...I really think 67 is enough!

Me, too, as long as 67 helps tell me what I want to know.

It wouldn't take so much to satisfy me.
[B]You fellow R1b1c's know how frustrating is to be the descendents of the "patriarch" sometimes...[B]

Yeah, I know.

Believe me, I know!

[F.E.C.]

I do hope that our additional markers will help with R1b research, but I wonder if we won't be asked to shell out for the "thousand-marker upgrade" in coming years.

Oh my...I really think 67 is enough!

Maybe by that time they will be able to tell us that we were descended from a specific tribe in an exact location (complete with satellite photos), that our ancestors liked to drink mead made with a specific variety of honey, and that they had a tendency to get athlete's foot.

It wouldn't take so much to satisfy me.
You fellow R1b1c's know how frustrating is to be the descendents of the "patriarch" sometimes...

[Stevo]

I've ordered the refinement test: I couldn't leave all the pioneers' glory to you

It costs less than an autosomal test and it's more helpful, at least I hope so.
However, now I promise I'm going to "stay put", at least until someone comes out with a new SNP for R1b's...

Great!

I do hope that our additional markers will help with R1b research, but I wonder if we won't be asked to shell out for the "thousand-marker upgrade" in coming years.

Maybe by that time they will be able to tell us that we were descended from a specific tribe in an exact location (complete with satellite photos), that our ancestors liked to drink mead made with a specific variety of honey, and that they had a tendency to get athlete's foot.

[F.E.C.]

I've ordered the refinement test: I couldn't leave all the pioneers' glory to you

It costs less than an autosomal test and it's more helpful, at least I hope so.
However, now I promise I'm going to "stay put", at least until someone comes out with a new SNP for R1b's...

[Stevo]

Well, when I first got tested last year I was actually hoping for some haplogroup that was more Mediterranean-based, say J or E3b or maybe a Balkans-based I. So it was a bit of a surprise when I found that I'm R1b. Partially, my feeling about that relates to finding out who is the birth father of my great-grandfather, who was abandoned at birth. I thought if I was in a haplogroup based more in the Mediterranean or Balkans, that would give me a better hint about the ethnicity of my paternal line, since my ancestral town is an Arberesh one. The Arberesh are the Albanians who fled to southern Italy and Sicily in the 15th century.

Also, the initial impulse to research my genealogy 5 years ago came after I participated in a seminar on Plato's dialogues and found that he made 2 or 3 extended visits to the Greek colonies in Sicily. I half-jokingly resolved to find out if I'm a descendant of Plato. Being R1b, that doesn't seem likely.

There is a fairly significant level of R1b in Greece.

Look at page 2 of this series of maps.

But Germanic or Scandinavian? Hmmm..... That might qualify me to be a descendant of either of the two greatest Sicilian leaders, King Roger II, a Norman, or his grandson, Frederick Hohenstaufen, a German. Yes, that's right, I am a descendant of Frederick, King of Sicily, Holy Roman Emperor and King of Jerusalem! Please refer to me as "your majesty" in the future.

Seriously, I'm happy with whereever the evidence leads me. I think the lure of genealogy is solving a mystery, but one that is personal to you. It's no accident that my favorite TV show is "Law and Order."

Mike

Yes, your majesty!

[Stevo]

How about free deep clade tests for all the R1b's in the Sicily Project?

Mike

I think you will have to sell quite a few more 67-marker upgrades to earn a commission that handsome!

[MMaddi]

Well, Mike and a few others convinced me, so maybe I have used what they said to convince you.

I guess Mike should get a commission from FTDNA!

How about free deep clade tests for all the R1b's in the Sicily Project?

Mike

[MMaddi]

I know it must have occurred to you guys that if the evidence is that S21+ is overwhelmingly Scandinavian/North Germanic, then you might be the descendants of Scandinavian/North Germanic invaders of Italy, like the Lombards, among many others.

I hope that idea is not completely repugnant to you. It certainly seems a distinct possibility, especially given your English near-hits using the 23 slow mutators.

Then again, if S21+s weathered the last Ice Age in Italy, well . . .

But how will you be able to tell the difference? Germanic invader or ultra-native Italian?

Well, when I first got tested last year I was actually hoping for some haplogroup that was more Mediterranean-based, say J or E3b or maybe a Balkans-based I. So it was a bit of a surprise when I found that I'm R1b. Partially, my feeling about that relates to finding out who is the birth father of my great-grandfather, who was abandoned at birth. I thought if I was in a haplogroup based more in the Mediterranean or Balkans, that would give me a better hint about the ethnicity of my paternal line, since my ancestral town is an Arberesh one. The Arberesh are the Albanians who fled to southern Italy and Sicily in the 15th century.

Also, the initial impulse to research my genealogy 5 years ago came after I participated in a seminar on Plato's dialogues and found that he made 2 or 3 extended visits to the Greek colonies in Sicily. I half-jokingly resolved to find out if I'm a descendant of Plato. Being R1b, that doesn't seem likely.

But Germanic or Scandinavian? Hmmm..... That might qualify me to be a descendant of either of the two greatest Sicilian leaders, King Roger II, a Norman, or his grandson, Frederick Hohenstaufen, a German. Yes, that's right, I am a descendant of Frederick, King of Sicily, Holy Roman Emperor and King of Jerusalem! Please refer to me as "your majesty" in the future.

Seriously, I'm happy with whereever the evidence leads me. I think the lure of genealogy is solving a mystery, but one that is personal to you. It's no accident that my favorite TV show is "Law and Order."

Mike

[Stevo]

What you say surely makes sense to me. You are right: at now, the upgrade is probably a better way to spend my money...I'm going to take some time for the decision.

Well, Mike and a few others convinced me, so maybe I have used what they said to convince you.

I guess Mike should get a commission from FTDNA!