If YOU ARE ONE, BE ONE

[GregKiroKH]

Greg -

I don't understand.

It is one of those thoughts I need to put together after listening to the news and movies and academic books. In college, I continued to look into my family tree. I can even remember during a job interview one representative told me a story of an older man who has a castle who wanted to trace every one of his ancestors. And while they might have been distant relatives. He would like them to return to their homelands just to look at the family castle and gardens. Of course, he would like to hear of some great or small accomplishment in print one day just for his memories. I thought this was interesting. I knew if I had not received an invitation by now, then I would most likely never get one. Still, it would be nice to find out where I came from so that I could visit to just look at the castles and gardens. So, I looked into books, and I found a treasure of information just like it was left for me. And so, I started to dream. When I saw the Disney version of Beauty and the Beast, I remembered that "Gaston" was "different for them rest." I became enchanted in the story. I could see my life and my friends in it. I found out that we were small land owners, and we lived in a town, and I liked the most beauty girl. And there were silly little girls who liked me. I had friends who talked about me, and what I did, And I did many things. We were farmers as well as hunters too. And we sold things, and things happened. And so, I found out that many things in my life were typical with the things I heard about with people in the news. Genetically, we have many things in common, but what about the differences? Why do some men do great things while others fall?

[Stevo]

Well, I ordered the S-series add-on test this morning.

Hope it works out well and I get the results within two months or less. I hope I am pleased with them, as well.

And I really hope the whole S thing doesn't turn out to be another flash in the pan that really offers no more geographic specificity than we already have (which, in the case of R1b, is not much).

[F.E.C.]

Well, I ordered the S-series add-on test this morning.

glad to know that, Stevo

And I really hope the whole S thing doesn't turn out to be another flash in the pan that really offers no more geographic specificity than we already have (which, in the case of R1b, is not much).

Yes, but it seems this is not the case

[Stevo]

Yes, but it seems this is not the case

You're right. Apparently that study of North Germanic and Norwegian R1b by Dr. James Wilson shows very strongly that S21 is an authentic indicator of Germanic/Scandinavian ancestry.

Of course, I don't know how I'll come out with regard to it.

But, anyway, it's nice to think that it might be the Teutonic version of what the NW Irish have in M222.

[GregKiroKH]

I knew I was R1b1c something. I will wait to see if I need to take the S-series test to follow protocol.

[Stevo]

I knew I was R1b1c something.

Yes, and that's what we like best about you, Greg: you are family . . . that and your somewhat eccentric posts!

[GregKiroKH]

Yes, and that's what we like best about you, Greg: you are family . . . that and your somewhat eccentric posts!

Thanks Stevo,

My day is a little happier because of the kindness of others .

[Stevo]

Genetic Replacement

It seems the R1b Forum has replaced this thread.

Kind of sad, really.

Anyway, the R1b Forum has really taken off lately and is becoming a lot more lively (although it does still seem I do most of the posting).

Page 29 in this thread and the pages just before and after it still seem important to me and worth remembering for future reference.

[Stevo]

Post #2,000

Since this is my 2,000th post, I thought I would place it squarely in this old thread. I started this thread in the first flush of excitement over getting my first 12 markers back and finding out my y-haplogroup (which was just a prediction back then).

I remember that night pretty well. I guess I am goofy, but my head was spinning with all sorts of images and questions. It was fun.

I am still no dna expert, but I enjoy this forum (although sometimes it is pretty dead).

Anyway, here is my 2,000th post.

Big deal, huh? I'm sure there are a few people who would rather I went away.

They are likely to be disappointed.

[GregKiroKH]

History of R1b

My idea is that govenment and war and ideas of gods and education influenced DNA. I am sure the influenced the history of R1b.

Scholasticism comes from the Latin word scholasticus, which means "that [which] belongs to the school," and it was a method of learning taught by the academics (or schoolmen) of medieval universities circa 1100–1500. Scholasticism originally began to reconcile the philosophy of the ancient classical philosophers with medieval Christian theologies. Supreme authority over other people by men versus individual education amongst people would soon become an issue. Unrest in the Western Church and Empire culminating in the Avignon Papacy (1308–1378), and the papal schism (1378–1416), was seemingly excited by wars between princes, uprisings among the peasants, and widespread concern over corruption in the monastic system resulted. One of the most disruptive and radical of the new perspectives came first from John Wycliffe at Oxford University, then from John Huss at the University of Prague. The Roman Catholic Church officially concluded this debate at the Council of Constance (1414–1418). The conclave condemned John Huss, who was executed, and they posthumously burned Wycliffe as a heretic.
The Wars of the Roses (1455–1485) were collectively an intermittent civil war fought over the throne of England between adherents of the House of Lancaster and the House of York. During this time, the church argued that science was wrong because it disagreed with the Bible. In Graz, Kepler began developing an original theory of cosmology based on the Copernican system, which was published in 1596 as Mysterium Cosmographicum —The Sacred Mystery of the Cosmos. Working with Tycho's extensive collection of highly accurate observational data, Kepler also set out to refine his earlier theories but was forced to abandon them. Instead, he began developing the first astronomical system to use non-circular orbits; it was completed in 1606 and published in 1609 as Astronomia Nova—New Astronomy. Astronomia Nova contained what would become the first and second laws of planetary motion. This did not mean that people were stupid. They just preferred fighting and opinions over extended laborious research. The Wars of the Roses ended under the reign of Henry VII, the king of hearts. During the wars, both houses were branches of the Plantagenet royal house, tracing their descent from King Edward III. This period saw the decline of English influence on the Continent, a weakening of the feudal power of the nobles, and a corresponding strengthening of the merchant classes. The growth of a strong, centralized monarchy assimilated the culture.
The name Wars of the Roses was not used at the time, but has its origins in the badges chosen by the two royal houses, the Red Rose of Lancaster, whose retainers tended to favor red coats or red roses as their symbol, and the White Rose of York, whose men often sported white coats or white rose insignia. Henry's claim to the throne was tenuous: it was based upon a lineage of illegitimate succession, and overlooked the fact that he had been disqualified by an earlier act of attainder. These pretenders were backed by disaffected nobles. Henry triumphed in securing his crown by a number of means but principally by dividing and undermining the power of the nobility, especially through bonds and recognisances. These actions forced the leaders to disband their private armies in favor of a national one. He also honored his pledge of December 1483 to marry Elizabeth of York, daughter and heir of King Edward IV. The marriage on January 18, 1486 at Westminster unified the warring houses by giving Henry a greater claim to the throne. Elizabeth's line of descent ensured that his children would (most likely) be of royal blood. Henry and Elizabeth named their eldest son Arthur after the hero of Arthurian legend, partly as a sign a new hope for a rebirth of English greatness, and partly to emphasize the Tudor family's links to Wales. Sadly, Arthur died of a fever in 1502, possibly caused by the damp weather conditions. Medical researchers recently speculated that Arthur's death was due to an outbreak of hantavirus among rodents in Wales.
Some have speculated that Arthur’s brother, Henry, might not have been as prepared to take over the throne. Born at the Palace of Placentia at Greenwich, Henry VIII was the third child of Henry VII and Elizabeth of York. On 14 November 1501, he attended the wedding of his elder brother and Catherine of Aragon. The groom and bride were at the time only about fifteen and sixteen years old, respectively. Henry VIII ascended the throne in 1509 upon his father's death. Catherine's father, the Aragonese King Ferdinand II, sought to control England through his daughter, and consequently insisted on her marriage to the new English king. Henry VIII wed Catherine of Aragon about nine weeks after his accession on 11 June 1509 at Greenwich, despite the concerns of Pope Julius II and William Warham, the Archbishop of Canterbury, regarding the marriage's validity.
Henry VIII was the first English king to use "Your Majesty" as a greeting. Upon his accession, Henry was faced with the problematic issues posed by Richard Empson and Edmund Dudley, two ministers of Henry VII's reign who imposed heavy, arbitrary taxes on the nobility. Management of the wealthy and the corrupt would soon influence the kingdom. For two years after Henry's accession, Richard Fox, the Bishop of Winchester and Lord Privy Seal, and William Warham controlled matters of state. From 1511 onwards, however, power was held by the ecclesiastic Thomas Wolsey. Henry seemed to enjoy the ways of the knight over management. In 1511, Henry joined the Holy League, a body of European rulers opposed to the French King Louis XII.
This was a time science, a principle, and the church, a body of people, began to diverge, indirectly helping the development of the Reformation. The Reformation was started by Martin Luther with his 95 Theses on the practice of indulgences. In late October of 1517, he posted these theses to the door of the Castle Church in Wittenberg, commonly used to post notices to the University community. These events most likely influenced Henry VIII. One example is with the influence of the Pope in the leadership of England and in how people should marry.
Henry's long and arduous attempt to end his marriage to Queen Catherine became known as "The King's Great Matter." Cardinal Wolsey and William Warham quietly began an inquiry into the validity of her marriage to Henry. Being advised of the King's predicament, Cardinal Wolsey sent Stephen Gardiner and Edward Fox to Rome. The Pope responded to these events by excommunicating Henry in July 1533. Rejecting the decisions of the Pope, Parliament validated the marriage between Henry and Anne with the Act of Succession of 1534. Opposition to Henry's religious policies was quickly suppressed. Several dissenting monks were tortured and executed.
Eventually, Henry married his last wife, the wealthy widow Catherine Parr, in 1543. She argued with Henry over religion; she was a Protestant, but Henry remained a Catholic. Over time, her words helped reconcile Henry with his first two daughters, the Lady Mary and the Lady Elizabeth. Resulting, in 1544, an Act of Parliament to put them “back” in the line of succession after the Prince Edward, Duke of Cornwall. Of course, there were many who still deemed the whole matter of kingship to be illegitimate.
Perhaps, the paradox of immoralities within the use of power by the authorities disheartens several groups of educated people. One mnemonic for the seemly immoral fates of Henry's wives is “divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded, survived.” Under the Act of Succession of 1544, Henry's only surviving son, Edward, inherited the Crown, becoming Edward VI. Thus the word of God would soon be given to the people in English since Edward was the first Protestant monarch to rule England.
Today's medicine might have helped Henry with his problem of bearing a male heir earlier. The well-known theory that he suffered from syphilis was first promoted approximately 100 years after his death. More recent support for this idea has come from a greater understanding of the disease, and it has led to the suggestion that Edward VI, Mary I, and Elizabeth I all displayed symptoms characteristic of congenital syphilis.
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[GregKiroKH]

The rest of the story

Research initiated by many unsolved problems of old have helped us today. And Henry did many good things as king. Together with Alfred the Great, Henry is traditionally called one of the founders of the Royal Navy even though Elizabeth I still had to cobble together a set of privately-owned ships to fight off the Spanish Armada. Henry also incurred the threat of a large-scale French or Spanish invasion leading to the building of a chain of new castles, known as Henry VIII's Device Forts. These things were something else by separating the old from the new.
Modern science differs from ancient philosophies mostly because of experimentation. The ancient ways of observation and discourse are still good. Yet, the old ways do not represent an absolute truth for all people. After these things, people left the old world to the new world so that they could worship God freely. The ways of the old world created many war due to ancestral differences in God, and the difference in wealth and power. The knights were one of the first modern groups to gather around the table to voice their objections of someone controlling their every actions and marriages. They ranked themselves in horizontal bands rather than vertically by ties of lordship. Reading “The Plan of Work” by Sir Francis Bacon (~1620) might help others to understand the enigmatic writings of the ancients. With all the things, the scientific method thus became popular with those who were educated, promoting testing over opinions.

Edited by GregKiroKH from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation

[lgmayka]

My idea is that govenment and war and ideas of gods and education influenced DNA. I am sure the influenced the history of R1b.

Your citation is riddled with major historical errors and heavily biased, and totally inappropriate for this forum in any case because it is not related to DNA in any reasonable way.

[Stevo]

Hey, but at least you guys managed to bump this thread back up.

I think it will fade, though, now that the R1b Forum has apparently taken off.

[GregKiroKH]

Your citation is riddled with major historical errors and heavily biased, and totally inappropriate for this forum in any case because it is not related to DNA in any reasonable way.

I disagree with your statement about how history and genealogy are not related. Historical activity is related to genetics and population movements. For example, read some books by Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza. In "Genes, People, and Languages," he writes about cultural diffusion.
War and the attitudes of war have greatly influenced human DNA. The War of the Roses influenced large populations of people. I agree that certain events in history can be looked upon from different points of views. Yet, in any of my lectures or papers, I seldom hear radical feedback from my presentations. I think I have considered all sides of the issue. And it is certainly my conclusion that education, war, management, and religion have influence population movement which in turn influenced DNA.

<<Of course, Elmer Fudd is a millionaire and he owns a big boat.>> The paper is not about me or my points of view (that would be much more detailed). It is about the people of R1b, and their history. Earlier, we were writing about knights, and we pondered if royal DNA was the same as middle class DNA. Most people said that they were the same. Now that is a public opinion . . .

[lgmayka]

Historical activity is related to genetics and population movements.

Yes, but instead of talking about population movements, you gave a biased, downright twisted history of the Protestant Reformation.