If YOU ARE ONE, BE ONE

[Stevo]

I hope and think so, also due to the fact the S21 mutation seems to be so old, diverse and widspread.
I was just wondering if this risk does exist: if it does, it would be a "tragedy" for those R1b1c9's who wish they could get more specifical infos on their ancestral origin.

Did you catch John McEwan's response to my post on the Rootsweb DNA List about a non-Iberian Ice Age refuge?

Unfortunately, I really cannot spend $300 right now to test for S21 or S28.

[GregKiroKH]

Did you catch John McEwan's response to my post on the Rootsweb DNA List about a non-Iberian Ice Age refuge?

Unfortunately, I really cannot spend $300 right now to test for S21 or S28.

I think it would be ethical if someone had the need for only one SNP to be tested then the company would allow the test. I guess the only way company's can justify a test depends on a certain ROI instead of happy clients.

[Stevo]

I think it would be ethical if someone had the need for only one SNP to be tested then the company would allow the test. I guess the only way company's can justify a test depends on a certain ROI instead of happy clients.

I guess part of the cost is in all the prep necessary before they can test for that single SNP, but I know little of the actual mechanics of dna testing.

It would be nice if one could order a test for a single SNP, like S21, and pay a much reduced rate.

My guess is that I will wait for FTDNA to begin testing for more R1b SNPs.

Honestly, I think that will be soon.

[Stevo]

Possible Good News

Did you all catch Dr. David Faux's announcement relative to R1b on the Rootsweb DNA List?

He is saying that he is going to start offering add-on SNP testing for the S-series.

His post wasn't entirely clear, but I interpreted it to mean that in the near future an R1b1 who has tested with another company will be able to purchase SNP-specific tests from EA without having to pay for the whole dna testing panoply.

In other words, we may soon see the advent of relatively inexpensive testing for the S-series of SNPs!

This is exciting.

I also believe that FTDNA will soon be testing for the S-series just to stay competitive and may even offer additional as yet unannounced SNPs.

Life as an R1b may get much more specific very soon.

It was also interesting to me that Dr. Faux called S21 "Scandinavian and North Germanic" and S28 "La Tene Celt." I'm not sure I know what to make of that, since he did not expand on it.

[DMac]

Did you all catch Dr. David Faux's announcement relative to R1b on the Rootsweb DNA List?

He is saying that he is going to start offering add-on SNP testing for the S-series.

His post wasn't entirely clear, but I interpreted it to mean that in the near future an R1b1 who has tested with another company will be able to purchase SNP-specific tests from EA without having to pay for the whole dna testing panoply.

In other words, we may soon see the advent of relatively inexpensive testing for the S-series of SNPs!

This is exciting.

I also believe that FTDNA will soon be testing for the S-series just to stay competitive and may even offer additional as yet unannounced SNPs.

Life as an R1b may get much more specific very soon.

It was also interesting to me that Dr. Faux called S21 "Scandinavian and North Germanic" and S28 "La Tene Celt." I'm not sure I know what to make of that, since he did not expand on it.

You might want to take a look at David's post here.

[F.E.C.]

S21 = Scandinavian/Germanic

[MMaddi]

S21 = Scandinavian/Germanic

I still wonder about David Faux's initial thoughts when both you and I, with Italian paternal lines, tested as S21+. At that time he put forward the idea that S21+'s ancient ancestors weathered the Ice Age in an Italian refugium. If that is true, then ultimately the deep ancestry of S21+ is Italian.

I am certainly going to encourage the 14 other R1b's in the Sicily Project to take advantage of the Ethnoancestry offer for reduced prices for S21 SNP testing only. There are three R1b project members who already have an R1b SNP test result from FTDNA or are awaiting a result for that test. So they would immediately qualify for the Ethnoancestry offer.

For the other 11 R1b's, who may be interested in deep ancestry, it may be economical now for them to order the FTDNA R1b deep clade test and then if they are R1b1c*, take up the Ethnoancestry offer.

The bottom line is that it would be important to get as many S21 test results in those with Italian paternal lines to see if David's initial thoughts about an Italian refugium are correct or if an Italian paternal line that is S21+ actually originated in northern Germany or Scandinavia.

Mike

[F.E.C.]

I am certainly going to encourage the 14 other R1b's in the Sicily Project to take advantage of the Ethnoancestry offer for reduced prices for S21 SNP testing only. There are three R1b project members who already have an R1b SNP test result from FTDNA or are awaiting a result for that test. So they would immediately qualify for the Ethnoancestry offer.

It's great to hear that, Mike

[GregKiroKH]

. . .
This is exciting.

I also believe that FTDNA will soon be testing for the S-series just to stay competitive and may even offer additional as yet unannounced SNPs.

Life as an R1b may get much more specific very soon.

It was also interesting to me that Dr. Faux called S21 "Scandinavian and North Germanic" and S28 "La Tene Celt." I'm not sure I know what to make of that, since he did not expand on it.

My first notion was to wait ten years for better results, including autosomal. The I said to myself, it would be good to know as soon as possible. And if they had my sample, then it might help with the mix up. I think I am encouraged by reading this thread. I guess, first, I ought to wait for my FTDNA SNP results. I noticed my mtDNA took an extra month or so too . . .

[Stevo]

S21 = Scandinavian/Germanic

I still wonder about David Faux's initial thoughts when both you and I, with Italian paternal lines, tested as S21+. At that time he put forward the idea that S21+'s ancient ancestors weathered the Ice Age in an Italian refugium. If that is true, then ultimately the deep ancestry of S21+ is Italian.

I know it must have occurred to you guys that if the evidence is that S21+ is overwhelmingly Scandinavian/North Germanic, then you might be the descendants of Scandinavian/North Germanic invaders of Italy, like the Lombards, among many others.

I hope that idea is not completely repugnant to you. It certainly seems a distinct possibility, especially given your English near-hits using the 23 slow mutators.

Then again, if S21+s weathered the last Ice Age in Italy, well . . .

But how will you be able to tell the difference? Germanic invader or ultra-native Italian?

[Stevo]

I know it must have occurred to you guys that if the evidence is that S21+ is overwhelmingly Scandinavian/North Germanic, then you might be the descendants of Scandinavian/North Germanic invaders of Italy, like the Lombards, among many others.

I hope that idea is not completely repugnant to you. It certainly seems a distinct possibility, especially given your English near-hits using the 23 slow mutators.

Then again, if S21+s weathered the last Ice Age in Italy, well . . .

But how will you be able to tell the difference? Germanic invader or ultra-native Italian?

It occurred to me after I posted the message above that one way to tell would be if there was greater haplotype diversity in S21s in Italy than elsewhere. That would indicate that Italy was indeed an LGM refugium.

If that is the case, then it would be incumbent upon all Italian S21s to upgrade to 67 markers, would it not?

Eh, Francesco?

[F.E.C.]

It occurred to me after I posted the message above that one way to tell would be if there was greater haplotype diversity in S21s in Italy than elsewhere. That would indicate that Italy was indeed an LGM refugium.

Stevo, I don't know what the situation is like after the new S21 entries at John McEwan's chart, but until few weeks ago, the most distant match I had among the other S21+ individuals was Mike! Indeed our haplotypes are extremely diverse: Mike, I think we have a GD of 27, correct me if I'm wrong.

If that is the case, then it would be incumbent upon all Italian S21s to upgrade to 67 markers, would it not?

Eh, Francesco?

As I told you, I can't still make up my mind on what test is the most useful to my goals. From what I've understood, the autosomal test should help me to learn about my deep ancestry more than the marker upgrade, though they say it's still too inaccurate
What do you suggest?

[F.E.C.]

But how will you be able to tell the difference? Germanic invader or ultra-native Italian?

How do you say?...you hit the head...no...you hit the nail on the head...is that correct?

However, as I said on the R1b forum, I don't find the hypothesis of having a Germanic gggggrandfather repugnant at all: either way, it would be an exciting discovery to me

[Stevo]

I am absolutely, without question, no expert on dna. From what I have heard of the current state of autosomal testing, however, I wouldn't put a lot of confidence in it.

When the 67-marker upgrade was first announced, my original thought was, "Big deal! Of what use is that to me, since I have no really meaningful matches at 37 markers?"

Then Mike Maddi mentioned the importance of the research being done by John McEwan, Ken Nordtvedt and others into STRs. I realized that maybe my additional markers might be of some assistance, especially since I have been SNP tested. (Of course, it would be even more helpful if I knew from where in Europe my immigrant ancestor came.)

Right now my status as a member of R1bSTR28 is iffy. Perhaps the additional markers will provide some additional resolution that will put me solidly into that cluster or exclude me from it (either result is a gain in insight).

Maybe the additional markers will help John in placing you in a cluster, or in identifying a new one?

If you are willing to spend the money, perhaps the 67-marker upgrade would be the most useful test in terms of promoting R1b research.

[F.E.C.]

What you say surely makes sense to me. You are right: at now, the upgrade is probably a better way to spend my money...I'm going to take some time for the decision.