If YOU ARE ONE, BE ONE

[lgmayka]

I imagine that if EA was able to find S21, the folks at the University of Arizona have already found it, too, as well as the other downstream R1b SNPs.

I am not sure how copyright law works in genetic nomenclature. I can't see how EA could possess an exclusive right to discover and name R1b SNPs. They don't own the human genome, after all.

I own my dna. If I send a sample to FTDNA, I am authorizing them to find out as much as they can about what is there and report back to me.

EA is not required to share its info with competitors, but I don't think it can prevent those competitors from reporting on the very same SNPs if they are able to find them themselves.

Here is my understanding. Anyone who knows better is welcome to correct me.

1) Because companies like EA and FTDNA work together to define the haplotree, they must agree to share the identity of each SNP--i.e., exactly where it occurs on the Y chromosome. Otherwise, they have no way of knowing whether an SNP found by one company is or is not the same SNP found by another company.

2) The procedure and chemicals (primers) used to test for a given SNP remain a trade secret of each company. Thus, if EA finds a new SNP using a novel procedure or primer, EA does not disclose those to FTDNA. Thus, FTDNA knows where the SNP is but not how to test for it.

3) If the method and apparatus are merely trade secrets, FTDNA is still free to re-discover those by itself. It should actually be able to do so at less effort than EA originally expended, because FTDNA knows precisely what to look for. FTDNA may or may not consider it profitable to do this, though. FTDNA knows that eventually, EA will have to publish its test procedure and primers in a refereed journal in order to gain full industrywide acceptance. At that point, FTDNA can begin testing for the SNP itself.

4) If EA actually patents the method and apparatus required to test for a given SNP, FTDNA cannot copy the procedure and primers even after publication except by purchasing a license from EA. FTDNA could, however, look for a different procedure and primers that would correctly test for the same SNP. That would avoid the license fee.

[Stevo]

Funny thing. When one clicks on the Frisian "haplotype neighbor" with a value of 24 at DYS390, here's what he gets.

Andalucía/Extremadura, Spain 4 / 386 Europe
Birmingham, UK 4 / 97 Europe
Brescia, Italy 5 / 106 Europe
Caceres, Spain 2 / 91 Europe
Central Bohemia, Czechia 1 / 252 Europe
Central Portugal 6 / 489 Europe
Denmark 2 / 247 Europe
England-Wales, UK [Afro-Caribbean] 1 / 107 Europe
England-Wales, UK [Chinese] 1 / 108 Europe
Ireland 8 / 152 Europe
Krusevo, Macedonia [Aromun] 1 / 43 Europe
Leuven, Belgium 4 / 113 Europe
London, UK 7 / 285 Europe
London, UK [Afro Caribbean] 4 / 290 Europe
Lyon, France 3 / 125 Europe
Macedonia 1 / 149 Europe
Madrid, Spain 4 / 152 Europe
Marche, Italy 3 / 205 Europe
Northern Portugal 15 / 564 Europe
Pyrenees, Spain 7 / 134 Europe
Southern Portugal 1 / 112 Europe
Stuttgart, Germany 3 / 453 Europe
Switzerland 3 / 149 Europe
Verona, Italy 3 / 153 Europe

Notice the Italians that pop up suddenly.

I wonder if what all these folks have in common doesn't have something to do with the extent of the Roman Empire.

Why is it the Celts and Germans assume such tremendous importance in everyone's musings, while probably the single most important empire in human history is largely overlooked?

Maybe there should be a modal called R1b-Roman Empire?

[F.E.C.]

I wonder if what all these folks have in common doesn't have something to do with the extent of the Roman Empire.

Why is it the Celts and Germans assume such tremendous importance in everyone's musings, while probably the single most important empire in human history is largely overlooked?

Maybe there should be a modal called R1b-Roman Empire?

Looking on Ysearch, I can notice Italian R1b's are overwelmingly DYS390=24.

Should we consider the hypothesis that native Italic populations (of IE derivation) giving birth to the GREAT Roman res publica (sorry Igmayka ) counted a good amount of R1b hg among them?
Definitely yes.

Nevertheless, you also can see it this way: Brescia and Verona were both founded by a celtic tribe named Cenomani, whereas the northern part of Marche was occupied by the Gauls, too.
Even today there is a strong difference in the dialect between northern Marche (defined by linguists Gallo-Italic as those spoken in northern Italy) and central-southern Marche.

[F.E.C.]

BTW, maybe you don't give a **** but this is the geographical distribution of my surname: http://gens.labo.net/en/cognomi/genera.html

Thanks to the beautiful Sicily Project for providing the link.

ooops...I've just realized it shows only a blank map of Italy...well, if you're interested in knowing where my prestigious close and distant relatives live just write cesaroni under cognome:

[MMaddi]

BTW, maybe you don't give a **** but this is the geographical distribution of my surname: http://gens.labo.net/en/cognomi/genera.html

Thanks to the beautiful Sicily Project for providing the link.

ooops...I've just realized it shows only a blank map of Italy...well, if you're interested in knowing where my prestigious close and distant relatives live just write cesaroni under cognome:

I prefer this one, which I should add to the Sicily Project website: http://elenco.libero.it/elenco/indexOmonimi.jsp

It gives you the exact number of telephone listings for a specific surname on a map of Italy, broken down by region. It shows the number of listings and percentage of the national figure, by region. Then, if you click on the percentage for a region, it gives you the breakdown by provinces in that region. Click on a province and you'll see the breakdown by comuni within that province. Click on a comune and you'll get the actual full name, address and phone number for everyone in that comune with that surname. That's how I got the addresses to write to 62 people in Sicily who have any one of 6 surnames that I have in my family tree.

Very handy for genealogy research in Italy!

Mike

[F.E.C.]

Thank you again Mike this last link was very useful.

I have 0 to 0.48% (almost nothing) in the south, then there is a sudden increase in the centre (30.78% Latium, 12.92% Umbria, 39.23% Marche ). Finally the percentage decreases again from Tuscany (5.58%) up to the regions in the extreme north (0% in Friuli, Trentino and Val d'Aosta).

Apparently in the area of Rome there are 171 families with my same surname: I don't have the guts to be insulted by all of them , maybe it would be better to write to the Umbrians only...

[Stevo]

Looking on Ysearch, I can notice Italian R1b's are overwelmingly DYS390=24.

Should we consider the hypothesis that native Italic populations (of IE derivation) giving birth to the GREAT Roman res publica (sorry Igmayka ) counted a good amount of R1b hg among them?
Definitely yes.

Nevertheless, you also can see it this way: Brescia and Verona were both founded by a celtic tribe named Cenomani, whereas the northern part of Marche was occupied by the Gauls, too.
Even today there is a strong difference in the dialect between northern Marche (defined by linguists Gallo-Italic as those spoken in northern Italy) and central-southern Marche.

You would have to spoil my Roman Empire theory with facts, Francesco.

Thanks for the link to the surname map of Italy. I just used it to print out a couple of cool maps to give to one of my students, whose surname is Cattaneo.

He is extremely proud of his Italian heritage (even to the point of cheering for Italy over the USA in the World Cup) and will be delighted with these maps.

[F.E.C.]

You would have to spoil my Roman Empire theory with facts, Francesco.

Thanks for the link to the surname map of Italy. I just used it to print out a couple of cool maps to give to one of my students, whose surname is Cattaneo.

He is extremely proud of his Italian heritage (even to the point of cheering for Italy over the USA in the World Cup) and will be delighted with these maps.

Lots of Cattaneos live in Bergamo, my hometown. I used to know a Cattaneo when I was younger.
I think it should be a surname clustered in the north and this is unusual for an Italian-American.
...Now that I think about it, the coach of the soccer team I used to play in when I was a kid was a Cattaneo!

[F.E.C.]

Thanks for the link to the surname map of Italy.

And I pass your thanks on to Mike

[Stevo]

Lots of Cattaneos live in Bergamo, my hometown. I used to know a Cattaneo when I was younger.
I think it should be a surname clustered in the north and this is unusual for an Italian-American.
...Now that I think about it, the coach of the soccer team I used to play in when I was a kid was a Cattaneo!

Small world!

This kid is tall for his age and very bright. He wants to play soccer in Europe someday.

[Stevo]

I still think it strangely curious that no one seems to give the Romans much credit for having a genetic impact upon Europe.

It seems ludicrous to me to imagine that they controlled so much of Europe for so long and yet altered the genetic landscape (particularly the y landscape) little.

IMHO they had to have made a tremendous impact, especially in Western Europe.

[F.E.C.]

Small world!

This kid is tall for his age and very bright.

Does the adjective bright mean he's a pest?

I'm glad to know Americans like soccer, at least as long as they are kids

[F.E.C.]

I still think it strangely curious that no one seems to give the Romans much credit for having a genetic impact upon Europe.

It seems ludicrous to me to imagine that they controlled so much of Europe for so long and yet altered the genetic landscape (particularly the y landscape) little.

IMHO they had to have made a tremendous impact, especially in Western Europe.

It seems to me they do give Romans credit for influencing the genetic make-up of Europe, but only for what concerns J's and E3b's.

As I have already said in the E3b thread, I disagree with this.

[Stevo]

It seems to me they do give Romans credit for influencing the genetic make-up of Europe, but only for what concerns J's and E3b's.

As I have already said in the E3b thread, I disagree with this.

Those groups aren't big enough to represent the entire genetic contribution of the Romans in Western Europe. They're only the tip of the iceberg.

About your earlier post: yeah, the kid's a pest, but they all are at his age.

At least he's intelligent.

[F.E.C.]

Stevo, didn't you succeed in involving the young Cattaneo in this DNA thing like you did with the Irish kid?