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Newbie Needs help and guidance please What to do next ?

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  • dwhitehead10
    replied
    Originally posted by ech124 View Post
    The nice thing about the Familyfinder test is that it should include segments for all of your main ancestral lines. Eventually after about 5th cousins, the segments may become too small to be meaningful. If I were in your shoes, I would encourage the other known descendants you found to take the familyfinder test. That should allow you to identify potential common segments from your common ancestor. In turn that will draw in other matches on that segment and by looking at the trees, you might be able to find a surname pattern. It takes lots of effort and some luck.
    Thanks for this , i was unsure if the family finder test would help me on the Thomas Mystery , but its sounds like it could. One of the people i have met too an ancestry equivalent test of Family finder , so i will ask to compare notes with him, once my results come back . thanks foe the info , its really appreciated

    regards
    DAVE

    Leave a comment:


  • dwhitehead10
    replied
    Originally posted by Conat View Post
    I agree with ech124, getting your known cousins tested is a good way forward as you can use "in common with" to see who else matches with them. Also put your Family Finder test on GEDmatch to see if you match people not on FTDNA.

    And has your 37 marker match tested more markers? If so, you'd also want to upgrade. Or have a word with them about you both upgrading. If you are still strongly matching at Y-111 it is something that might also be picked up in a Family Finder test.

    On the paper trail, it is tricky because you are back before the censuses (you might have found a Keys living nearby). Have you checked the baptismal records for Keys being christened in the same church? It might be worth posting what you know here:
    http://www.rootschat.com/forum/lanca...okup-requests/

    I'm also from Liverpool and the good people there helped me break through a (more recent) brickwall. The problem is that the records are much thinner in the period you are looking into, but it might be possible to find something useful that could feed back into your DNA tests. For example, Martha Hughes may have got married making it difficult to trace her - we have two cases of known illegitimacy on my wife's side of the family, one of the mothers has a common name and we just can't track her down as she seems to have got married but we are have our fingers crossed that DNA testing might pick up other descendants of hers.
    That you so much for the reply , and your additional suggestions. Ill update you If i make any progress, but the help is really appreciated
    regards
    DAVE

    Leave a comment:


  • dwhitehead10
    replied
    Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
    You seem to have made some good progress already, based on the matches that you cite above. You mention that the matches with the Key, KEYS or KEAYS surname differ on 3 or 4 markers, so it sounds like these matches are at the 37 marker level. I say that because someone with whom you differ on 3 or 4 markers would not be shown to you at the 12 or 25 marker level.

    This means that these matches are probably meaningful, since matches at the 37 or higher level are much more likely to represent a common ancestor in a genealogical time frame than matches at the 12 or 25 marker level. However, a 34/37 or 33/37 match (differing on 3 or 4 markers) could represent a common ancestor 500 years ago, which wouldn't be that helpful to you.

    The first thing to do, if you haven't already, is to contact these matches and see if any have a paternal line ancestor who lived in Liverpool around 1800 when Thomas Hughes Whitehead was born. In order to break down a brick wall, you have to establish some connection between your matches' ancestors and your brick wall ancestor in time and place.

    It may be useful to join the Key surname project at https://www.familytreedna.com/public...NAtestproject/. In fact, some of your matches are likely to be members of this project already - check their results table at https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults. You can write the administrators of the project, whose e-mail addresses appear near the top of the project home page, and explain that your matches at 37 markers all have the Key surname or a variation. They may allow you to join the project. Plus, they probably have some knowledge of the paper trail genealogy for that surname and could direct you to someone who has Liverpool ancestry for that surname.

    Also, you should be looking in whatever census or other records exist for Liverpool around 1800 for someone named Key, KEYS or KEAYS who lived in the vicinity of Hannah Hughes. You may be lucky and find that someone with one of those surnames lived next door or down the street from her. He would be a prime candidate to be the father of Thomas Hughes Whitehead.

    The important thing to keep in mind is that DNA testing will rarely give you the name of the specific man who was the father of a brick wall ancestor. Usually, it will give you a strong clue to the surname of the father. Once you have the surname, searching in the paper trail will be more definitive in finding the specific man who was the father than going on the probabilities involved in close DNA matching.

    As I mentioned above, with a 33/37 or 34/37 match the common ancestor may be too far back to identify the specific man you're looking for. If any of those matches have tested to 67 markers, you may want to consider upgrading to 67 markers. That may show which of these matches are closer to you than the others. For instance, one may turn out to be a a 62/67 or 63/67 match, while the others are 60/67 matches or drop off the match list entirely at 67 markers, which only shows those with whom you differ on 7 or less markers. That would tell you which are more likely to share a more recent common ancestor with you than the others.
    THANK YOU for such a help fun post , it really helps, as i say I'm completely new to the DNA testing , and also Geneology - looks like i should upgrade to a 67 Test. i have already requested a family finder test ... Ill update on here as i find out any more information, but again ,thanks for the help
    regards
    DAVE

    Leave a comment:


  • Conat
    replied
    I agree with ech124, getting your known cousins tested is a good way forward as you can use "in common with" to see who else matches with them. Also put your Family Finder test on GEDmatch to see if you match people not on FTDNA.

    And has your 37 marker match tested more markers? If so, you'd also want to upgrade. Or have a word with them about you both upgrading. If you are still strongly matching at Y-111 it is something that might also be picked up in a Family Finder test.

    On the paper trail, it is tricky because you are back before the censuses (you might have found a Keys living nearby). Have you checked the baptismal records for Keys being christened in the same church? It might be worth posting what you know here:
    http://www.rootschat.com/forum/lanca...okup-requests/

    I'm also from Liverpool and the good people there helped me break through a (more recent) brickwall. The problem is that the records are much thinner in the period you are looking into, but it might be possible to find something useful that could feed back into your DNA tests. For example, Martha Hughes may have got married making it difficult to trace her - we have two cases of known illegitimacy on my wife's side of the family, one of the mothers has a common name and we just can't track her down as she seems to have got married but we are have our fingers crossed that DNA testing might pick up other descendants of hers.

    Leave a comment:


  • MMaddi
    replied
    Originally posted by dwhitehead10 View Post
    I have been able to trace my direct paternal line to a Thomas Hughes Whitehead, for in Liverpool, in 1804 . In undertaking this research i have met up with 3 other direct descendants of Thomas, which has been great , BUT non of us , some having been doing genealogy for 20+ years had been bale to go back any further. We know that Thomas's mother was Hannah Hughes, who we can not trace any further back, also for Liverpool . BUT we have found a change to the baptism record for Thomas, that some 20+ years after his Baptism, the record was changed to show that he was illegitimate , and the Farther was not a John Griffiths, but Undisclosed ..

    So i took a YDNA 37 Marker test to see if this gave any clues ..

    What it has shown is that all the matches i have had have a surname of Key, KEYS or KEAYS.. and No Whiteheads in sight , which I can understand from the paper trail, but Im not sure what to do now .. the matches are 3 or 4 markers away .. I have found one on search that has a genetic distance of 0, and matches on 27 of 37 ... Is this a good avenue to explore ..

    sorry i am completely new to all of this DNA testing , and although i am reading all of the notes / articles etc , I have t say install really confused about what the results are showing me ..

    PLEASE - any suggestions on what my next steps should be ? - I have just signed up for a Family finder test , but that was to try and confirm some of the paper trail on my Mothers side, if I'm honest.. Any and all suggestions would be really welcome

    regards
    DAVE
    You seem to have made some good progress already, based on the matches that you cite above. You mention that the matches with the Key, KEYS or KEAYS surname differ on 3 or 4 markers, so it sounds like these matches are at the 37 marker level. I say that because someone with whom you differ on 3 or 4 markers would not be shown to you at the 12 or 25 marker level.

    This means that these matches are probably meaningful, since matches at the 37 or higher level are much more likely to represent a common ancestor in a genealogical time frame than matches at the 12 or 25 marker level. However, a 34/37 or 33/37 match (differing on 3 or 4 markers) could represent a common ancestor 500 years ago, which wouldn't be that helpful to you.

    The first thing to do, if you haven't already, is to contact these matches and see if any have a paternal line ancestor who lived in Liverpool around 1800 when Thomas Hughes Whitehead was born. In order to break down a brick wall, you have to establish some connection between your matches' ancestors and your brick wall ancestor in time and place.

    It may be useful to join the Key surname project at https://www.familytreedna.com/public...NAtestproject/. In fact, some of your matches are likely to be members of this project already - check their results table at https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults. You can write the administrators of the project, whose e-mail addresses appear near the top of the project home page, and explain that your matches at 37 markers all have the Key surname or a variation. They may allow you to join the project. Plus, they probably have some knowledge of the paper trail genealogy for that surname and could direct you to someone who has Liverpool ancestry for that surname.

    Also, you should be looking in whatever census or other records exist for Liverpool around 1800 for someone named Key, KEYS or KEAYS who lived in the vicinity of Hannah Hughes. You may be lucky and find that someone with one of those surnames lived next door or down the street from her. He would be a prime candidate to be the father of Thomas Hughes Whitehead.

    The important thing to keep in mind is that DNA testing will rarely give you the name of the specific man who was the father of a brick wall ancestor. Usually, it will give you a strong clue to the surname of the father. Once you have the surname, searching in the paper trail will be more definitive in finding the specific man who was the father than going on the probabilities involved in close DNA matching.

    As I mentioned above, with a 33/37 or 34/37 match the common ancestor may be too far back to identify the specific man you're looking for. If any of those matches have tested to 67 markers, you may want to consider upgrading to 67 markers. That may show which of these matches are closer to you than the others. For instance, one may turn out to be a a 62/67 or 63/67 match, while the others are 60/67 matches or drop off the match list entirely at 67 markers, which only shows those with whom you differ on 7 or less markers. That would tell you which are more likely to share a more recent common ancestor with you than the others.
    Last edited by MMaddi; 6 July 2016, 12:11 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ech124
    replied
    The nice thing about the Familyfinder test is that it should include segments for all of your main ancestral lines. Eventually after about 5th cousins, the segments may become too small to be meaningful. If I were in your shoes, I would encourage the other known descendants you found to take the familyfinder test. That should allow you to identify potential common segments from your common ancestor. In turn that will draw in other matches on that segment and by looking at the trees, you might be able to find a surname pattern. It takes lots of effort and some luck.

    Leave a comment:


  • Newbie Needs help and guidance please What to do next ?

    Hi All,

    I have only been doing genealogy for about 12 months now , and recently took a YDNA test, hoping it would help me on the Brick wall i have with my Paternal line.

    I have been able to trace my direct paternal line to a Thomas Hughes Whitehead, for in Liverpool, in 1804 . In undertaking this research i have met up with 3 other direct descendants of Thomas, which has been great , BUT non of us , some having been doing genealogy for 20+ years had been bale to go back any further. We know that Thomas's mother was Hannah Hughes, who we can not trace any further back, also for Liverpool . BUT we have found a change to the baptism record for Thomas, that some 20+ years after his Baptism, the record was changed to show that he was illegitimate , and the Farther was not a John Griffiths, but Undisclosed ..

    So i took a YDNA 37 Marker test to see if this gave any clues ..

    What it has shown is that all the matches i have had have a surname of Key, KEYS or KEAYS.. and No Whiteheads in sight , which I can understand from the paper trail, but Im not sure what to do now .. the matches are 3 or 4 markers away .. I have found one on search that has a genetic distance of 0, and matches on 27 of 37 ... Is this a good avenue to explore ..

    sorry i am completely new to all of this DNA testing , and although i am reading all of the notes / articles etc , I have t say install really confused about what the results are showing me ..

    PLEASE - any suggestions on what my next steps should be ? - I have just signed up for a Family finder test , but that was to try and confirm some of the paper trail on my Mothers side, if I'm honest.. Any and all suggestions would be really welcome

    regards
    DAVE
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