Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

When Your Genetic Ancestor and Surname Don't Match

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Hemalachim
    replied
    we have DYS 393=10

    Originally posted by chrstdvd View Post
    All I want to do is find my 3rd great grandfather's father. I got Y67 tested and only match my cousin and a man named Howard, I am Christopher. Howard nor I match anyone in either project.

    He can prove to a grandfather born in 1785 and I can only prove my line to 1820.

    The kicker for us is we have a DYS 393 = 10 which gives us a Genetic Distance of 2, 3 or 4 in most cases on just that one marker. Even at 67 markers we have a distance of 2, 2 markers being off by one.

    We have no clue who we are genetically. Even at Ysearch the only matches we have is ourselves.

    My 3rd great just fell out of the sky and appeared on earth in 1820 and we do not know when he died. I did stumble on his Civil War service record and we know he survived the war because we have his discharge papers. After the War he must have gone back to his "space ship".
    Hi Chrstdvd,
    My uncles also have DYS 393=10. Could you let me know your markers for DYS 385 and 456? For them it's 11-11 and 12. I've heard that the combi is extremely unusual.
    We are from the Netherlands. But we know my grandfather is not a native, he was sort of adopted. They say he was British.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robertjm
    replied
    Have you looked for his pension records as well? That might show where his pension money was sent, and perhaps even have a death date, if it went on to his widow.

    Originally posted by chrstdvd View Post

    ...My 3rd great just fell out of the sky and appeared on earth in 1820 and we do not know when he died. I did stumble on his Civil War service record and we know he survived the war because we have his discharge papers...

    Leave a comment:


  • chrstdvd
    replied
    Count me in

    All I want to do is find my 3rd great grandfather's father. I got Y67 tested and only match my cousin and a man named Howard, I am Christopher. Howard nor I match anyone in either project.

    He can prove to a grandfather born in 1785 and I can only prove my line to 1820.

    The kicker for us is we have a DYS 393 = 10 which gives us a Genetic Distance of 2, 3 or 4 in most cases on just that one marker. Even at 67 markers we have a distance of 2, 2 markers being off by one.

    We have no clue who we are genetically. Even at Ysearch the only matches we have is ourselves.

    My 3rd great just fell out of the sky and appeared on earth in 1820 and we do not know when he died. I did stumble on his Civil War service record and we know he survived the war because we have his discharge papers. After the War he must have gone back to his "space ship".

    Leave a comment:


  • YoungUncle
    replied
    Count me in.

    The whole point of YDNA testing for me was to figure out what my family name 'really' is: the name my grandfather was born with c1900, or the name his father was born with c1850. I had discovered that the grandfather's surname was completely bogus, assumed by his father two decades earlier - it had then taken me many months to discover the 'official' surname, through the magic of databases and search engines and coincidences piled on coincidences, culminating in finding he had a younger sibling we knew nothing of who used the same assumed surname, and who had been given it as a middle name at birth - often a telltale sign of a 'real' father's surname. (Older siblings all used the 'official' surname; and none of them produced surviving offspring, of course.)

    I wanted to know whether the registered father was the real father, or there might be some truth to the tale that accompanied the assumed surname. You know, high society, la di da

    The official surname is almost as common as Smith, and there is not a hint of a match with any of the many in the project here. The assumed surname is rare, and none of the handful in the project here fits the ethnicity/genealogy.

    But hey ho, came a very close match that fit everything I had expected a match would be (correct geographical origin, socioeconomic characteristics, emigration pattern) ... but had a third surname altogether, not a common one, and a good paper pedigree to go with back to the 1500s. Me, I have no pedigree before the early 1800s. A (supposed at least) 3rd great grandfather with that common 'official' surname, and an even more common given name, and insufficient personal details to find anything more about him.

    The third surname could have snuck in at the 1850 birth, or the birth of his father c1820 ... or long long before. (I have no doubt of the 'legitimacy' of my father's and grandfather's births at least.)

    As it stands, the match and I probably converge sometime around the beginning of records in the common source location in Britain. So either our MRCA predated surnames, or somebody has a bent link in their chain. Probably me

    Now I'm wondering whether my Family Finder test (which the match has already done) will have any tales to tell ...

    Leave a comment:


  • BBA64
    replied
    Originally posted by Jons13 View Post
    How does one figure out tbeir "Genectic Surname"?
    As opposed to my adoptive one? Autosomal and Y-DNA tests, acquiring matches, asking for surnames (or trees) from DNA cousins, doing brute force expansion of the trees, looking for where trees intersect, etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jons13
    replied
    How does one figure out tbeir "Genectic Surname"?

    Leave a comment:


  • BBA64
    replied
    I'm adopted and recently figured out who my birthfather is (by the power autosomal testing, folks will to share trees, and brute-force building of trees from clues).

    Anyway, my Y67 matches are heavily Butler. I joined the Bulter surname project and fit in nicely with one of the Irish populations there.

    However, my second closest match is a Clancy. The three closest matches (2 Butlers, 1 Clancy) are all GD3. So somewhere at least 4 generations back, there's either an NPE or a Butler chose to take a Clancy surname (or something similar). But it is clear this happened in Ireland.

    As somebody said above, this will be more interesting to figure out than if everything just fell into place!

    Leave a comment:


  • dna
    replied
    @Robertjm, your post has remained me about different surname scenarios for children of unwed mothers. Here are some I have encountered:
    • Even when the father was known and acknowledged, but had married mother of his son (or daughter) after the birth, some jurisdictions enforced the rule that the child had to have mother's surname.
    • Mostly applicable to men in a position of power... They could recognize their child and give them their family name, although if there were children in their marriage, they gave some different family name in order to avoid succession or inheritance consequences, while never marring the mother and staying in their marriage.
    • Whatever was an equivalent of social services at the time was devising a surname, often a stigmatizing one and enforcing it being entered into all the documents. (Mostly the 19th and 20th century scenario.)

    Mr W

    Leave a comment:


  • Robertjm
    replied
    I'm actually expecting this

    In my case I'll be surprised if this isn't the case for me. My Marshall/Machado family name was actually my great-great-great-grandmother's family line because my great-great-great-grandfather was Pai Incognito, in the Azores (A classification for "Father Unknown").

    Now, of course, they might be another Teixeira Machado. But, it's probably not going to be the case.

    When I discovered where my family name came from, it did knock me for a loop, and made me wonder what the name should actually be. But, in the long run, I couldn't imagine not being a Marshall.

    We'll see in Feb/March, which road it does take me down.

    Leave a comment:


  • crhfish
    replied
    I certainly think I have an NPE. I have one match, y67, with a distance of 2. I have one match, y67, distance of 1. Both have different surnames. My surname is Hays and I originally did the y testing to try and figure out who my GGGrandfather was or at least where he came from. The surname Hays is found in several different areas of Europe and spelled a couple of different ways. I joined the Hays project and I don't remotely get close to matching anyone there.

    But looking at the family trees of my matches and gathering more information I have determined that an NPE may have occurred in the early 1800's. At one time one of the ancestor families of my matches lived within two miles of our old family farm for 30 years or so. A brother of the patriarch of this family lived next door to my other match three counties away. I think another may have occurred there.

    Its still possible that this happened a long time ago. We are all three Irish type 4 and that group contains many surnames.

    I'm in the process of using some 2nd cousin matches to see if thy could help me a bit. I am building trees on them to see how we are connected. Its not obvious based on the current tree information I have.

    Leave a comment:


  • dna
    replied
    The NPE may have happened centuries ago!

    Originally posted by rmm0484 View Post
    [----] One word of advice: the NPE may have happened centuries ago.
    I will add that remainder next time I am posting my list.

    Mr W

    Leave a comment:


  • rmm0484
    replied
    Originally posted by Stephen Rhodes View Post
    Hi! I'm new to the forums, but not to Family Tree DNA. This is my first post here.

    My question to the forum - how many of you who have tested only to find out that you aren't who you thought you were? That your given surname is different from your genetic surname?

    Cheers,

    Steve
    Not only are we not genetic Grahams (my surname) but we are not even Scottish or English. We have been marching to the wrong set of bagpipes! We joined the Clan Graham, got the kilts, etc...

    Our Y-DNA is actually tied to the P-109 Haplogroup, to an even more specific subgroup in England, but the DNA is not English, but more nordic. We match the Wests, Rushings, Chisholms, and more.

    I am suspecting adoption in y grandfather's case, since his parents never lived in Fall River MA, and there is no record of his birth there.

    One word of advice: the NPE may have happened centuries ago.

    Leave a comment:


  • dna
    replied
    Originally posted by chelli11 View Post
    Dna,
    I generalized when I said Eastern Europe just to keep my post light, apologies. Latvia to be specific. Peasantry acquired surnames in the early half of the 1800's. I have traced my family back to just before that surname acquisition point, so i didnt really expect to find any Y matches with a matching surname. Coincidentally, the male cousin I tested IS I-P37, though I understand thats a less common haplogroup in Latvia. Other Y matches are scattered from Russia to Germany to Romania, Croatia, Hungary, all with different surnames.
    Mind you our closest Y match is 2 steps at 37 markers...
    Thank you for clarification. I am sorry, if I sounded too harsh.

    Yes, I-P37 is very old, so those men are spread all over the Europe. And looking at STRs might not be as rewarding as tracking using SNPs (Big Y test). After watching R1b results for many years, I was totally confused when a Y-DNA67 test of I-P37 family member resulted in tens of clearly unrelated matches. That looked like a result of back-convergence (I think there is a proper term for that, it just escaped me; I mean a situation when after some very long time, after a mutation an STR value can go back to its old value).

    Since I is a less common haplogroup in Latvia, if you find a Latvian match you might be very closely related.

    For my family, we had ordered Big Y (it gave no close matches), and now realizing that not everybody goes for Big Y, I used the current sale to order an upgrade to Y-DNA111.

    Good luck with your research!

    Merry Christmas - Mr W

    Leave a comment:


  • chelli11
    replied
    Dna,
    I generalized when I said Eastern Europe just to keep my post light, apologies. Latvia to be specific. Peasantry acquired surnames in the early half of the 1800's. I have traced my family back to just before that surname acquisition point, so i didnt really expect to find any Y matches with a matching surname. Coincidentally, the male cousin I tested IS I-P37, though I understand thats a less common haplogroup in Latvia. Other Y matches are scattered from Russia to Germany to Romania, Croatia, Hungary, all with different surnames.
    Mind you our closest Y match is 2 steps at 37 markers...

    Leave a comment:


  • hfp43
    replied
    Recorded Surnames vs Biological Surnames

    "My question to the forum - how many of you who have tested only to find out that you aren't who you thought you were? That your given surname is different from your genetic surname?"

    My paternal line includes at least two different NPE's (non-paternity events, where the recorded father was not the biological father). The most recent NPE was in 1906 (the birth of my father) and an earlier one most likely occurred in 1787. I had no inkling of any of this when I started my DNA-based genealogical research three years ago.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X