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my beginners quest(ions)

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  • my beginners quest(ions)

    Ok here is the info on my 2 quests:

    0. I am in NZ. [I don't like being here, i want to be in UK but I am still stuck here due to my condition/s and situation.] Where in NZ can i get decent genetic/dna/haplogroup testing? (The 1 place i asked were unhelpful (see below).) I'm not happy about giving this regime or corporates my genetic info, what legal rights do i have that they won't secretly use the info to exploit me?

    1. I am trying to find out who my real maternal grandfather is. My mothers mother had an affair with an Italian pow in Notts in 1940s and we don't know for sure who her real father is. Her mother and her commonly assumed father are deceased. The "family" are all gone their own ways all over NZ, and none of my mothers brothers & sister seem to be willing or able to help me find out more info (from themselves that they may have). Even my mother now seems to be changing her mind (avoiding me). I don't even have any surname or info to search in Notts sites/records.
    We don't have any genetic sample from her commonly assumed "father" except hair (not roots) which the genetic testing people say is no good/use. I doubt i could get my mothers commonly assumed "father" exhumed, and even if i could the genetic dna may be degraded or contaminated? I can't even find any info on what blood groups (and/or fingerprints) my mothers mother and c.a. "father" were.
    I had thought that genetic testing even just from one person (like my mother in this case) could tell something about ethnic/geographical background (haplogroup?), but the "best" genetic testing people here in NZ claim that they can't tell "racial" etc info from testing. (Does that mean the other ones that claim to are hoax/scam? Is this typical NZ anti-"racism" getting in the way here?) Another site i looked at i am dubious of since they claim they can tell just from saliva.

    2. My fathers father (Bambrough, born Durham) claimed we are descended from a "German or Prussian prince". I found someone else with same surename in Newcastle via facebook that says they have the same story in their family. I can not afford and don't have the time and health etc to do intense genealogical family tree research. Since my grandfather came from UK to NZ i have no relatives here other than his descedants. I wrote a letter to the editor to a Durham paper but not sure they published it or no replies. Nevertheless i got back about 7 generations but have come to a dead end as far as free internet resources go. (Though i am now abit uncertain about some of the info i got from someone via a internet forum thread on our surname.) My ca 7th generation removed ancestor John Bambrough was married to an Isabel/Isobel but i have no certain reliable info on what her surname was (it might have been Forster but not sure as another family tree only lists a daughter of John & Isabel not any son). I am not sure whether the German/Prussian prince is in the Bambrough line or the [Forster?] line or the. The only likely match i can find is Ida or Bebba or Ealdred of Bamburgh/Bambrough (Northumbria), though now the Forster one looks maybe more likely.

    These two or three lines are my main interest that i need/want to find out about (the Italian pow, Bambrough and/or Isabel/[Forster?]).

  • #2
    If you do a Family Finder (autosomal) test you will get matches that can be from any of your ancestral lines. By looking at how they connect to you there is a possibility that you will be able to establish contact with other cousins researching the same lines who will be able to help you.

    As to your financial constraints on research, try your local library to see if they have access to subscription sites such as Ancestry and findmypast. You can get a lot of free advice by joining rootschat.com or some of the genealogy groups on facebook. You may also find NDFHS (Northumberland and Durham Family History Society) useful in researching your folks from the North-East of England.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hello Sean,

      LynCra has already guided you in the right direction: Family Finder test. Budget permitting, follow that up with testing of your Y chromosome DNA.


      Let me try to comment some points from your post.

      the "best" genetic testing people here in NZ claim that they can't tell "racial" etc info from testing
      Surprisingly to those new to genetics, that is true. High probability results are used in police work around the world, but that is closer to 80% guess, not to 100% certainty. And for their purposes, knowing that the perpetrator (or a victim or a witness) was at 80% a Japanese male is way better than knowing nothing. For ancestry research, knowing that one's ancestor was at 80% Japanese, but it could have been Korean or Chinese or from some other related population is likely of a very limited value.

      Would it be ever 100%? It could, if there were no migrations and no mixed marriages for centuries . Look at the number of Germans with Slavic -ski in their family name... What about the British royal family? They are Germans one might say. Etc.

      they claim they can tell just from saliva.
      A saliva sample or a buccal cells sample (cheek tissue inside the mouth), and not a blood sample, are used by all genealogical testing companies. A blood sample is used for full genome or medical or advanced research. Regardless where the DNA comes from, nobody can guarantee 100% predictions without some prior knowledge (target populations exhaustively sampled). Sometimes there are scientists announcing origins of some DNA with 100% certainty, but that is always some special case. Let's say in Oceania there are two islands A, B and C that is equidistant to A and B and was settled later than A and B. If the (small!) populations from A and B are sampled (and they are found to not be too similar), then testing of DNA (either from living or from remains) at the island C will point to A or B or mix of both.

      Exhumation.
      Let's gloss over any legal issues, as at some places around the world it is actually almost trivial to get an exhumation approved. In order to obtain a non-contaminated DNA sample one would need to have a team that specializes in this type of work. That means a serious budget. Not only everything has to be done as seen in the movies, but also everybody involved (from the field work, up to the point of DNA extraction) need to have their DNA tested. Why? To be able to exclude contamination. Also if DNA is degraded, then it is no more a standard 99-999 dollars test at a company that does genetic testing for genealogical purposes. Either some forensic lab or advanced university research lab could do it, but they would need to have previous experience and facilities and willing to perform a test for you... Conclusions? In my opinion, it is cheaper and easier to convince all known family members to submit samples to genetic testing for genealogical purposes.


      W. (Mr.)
      Last edited by dna; 7 July 2015, 12:17 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thankyou both for your repsonses.
        Ok, where/how do i get a family finder / autosomal test in NZ then? (Is that only y/paternal not mt/maternal?)
        The NDFHS is good idea for my paternal quest thanks. (Rootschat is where i got some of my info but some of it i am not sure about now.)
        But I still have no idea how/where to find info on the ww2 Italian pow in Nottingham.
        The mothers sibiings refuse to help/participate (they are christians (as i sort-of/maybe am) and childishly/puritanicaly think grandma being "unfaithful" is "damaging" [as if all humans aren't equally rotten])

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by japhethite View Post
          Thank you both for your responses.
          Ok, where/how do i get a family finder / autosomal test in NZ then? [----]
          If you have a credit card it is trivial (read on), if you do not, arrange for someone with a credit card to pay.

          Go to the page https://www.familytreedna.com/products.aspx

          Click on $99 (USD) for Family Finder.

          Declare your gender (in reality sex, and not gender).

          Click edit next to Tester's Name, and enter your name.

          Click Proceed to checkout.

          Once at the checkout, you would notice that $9.95 (again USD) is added as the cost of shipping to New Zealand. Actually cost is the same to almost anywhere, but the US.

          You have an option of shipping to a different address, than the one associated with the billing address of the credit card holder. It is useful when somebody else is paying with their credit card for your purchase.

          It is critical that you provide a good/working e-mail address - it would be essential for your communication with Family Tree DNA.

          If you paid the credit card holder, please use your own e-mail address for both billing and shipping. Of course, it you are using your own credit card keep Billing address is same as shipping address selected.

          Mr. W.

          Comment


          • #6
            I forgot to say that i have ocd and don't like the being sent a kit and having to send back samples. I thought there might be some place in NZ i could be tested.
            If only i had the Italian pows surname or first name or something i could track.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Sean mate

              There is nowhere in NZ that i know of that does this sort of testing. Moreover, an autosomal test could show up Italian origins as this — probably more precisely Southern Italian and Sicilian— is one of the target areas (30 ancestry informative markers) of the North Mediterranean ’blob’ (could be renamed), and is a quarter of your ancestry.

              The likelihood of making an Italian connection with anyone is slight, as most folk who do these tests are essentially of Northern European origin, but who knows.

              A credit or debitcard doesn‘t need to be used, a bank draft (NZ and Canada; also called a bankers‘ cheque (UK); or cashiers‘ check (US)—not sure where the apostrophe goes) can be used and sent with the returned kit. This is how i did it. I’m awaiting a debitcard so could, i hope, eventually help you if necessary.

              Zed
              Last edited by Zed; 8 July 2015, 03:35 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Some relevant links:

                http://www.italiangenealogy.com/foru...genealogy/2205 About Italian POWs in UK with suggestions.

                http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/4144...ian-pow-lists/ Where to find records of Italian POWs.

                http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/5205...a-and-england/ Another thread.

                http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205202291 Some photos.

                http://www.theguardian.com/news/data...f-war-camps-uk 1026 camps.

                They offen worked out of the camps: good way to meet the local lassies.

                You may have to learn Italian.

                Comment


                • #9
                  A footnote to my first post in this thread (seeing that one cannot edit later).

                  Looking at testing in NZ it is mostly paternity testing, and all testing here is very expensive.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Wow thanks heaps Zed, thats a great help for the Italian pow quest.

                    For the genetic test i may just have to leave it until my situation/condition isn't so bad. Credit card is no problem, just having to deal with the kit (and also not really knowing the people who i'd be dealing with).

                    Comment

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