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  • Afraid to test

    I have a situation where I need to confirm an NPE. This requires mu only second cousin to take a FF test to pinpoint the generation where it occured. Unfortunately they are deathly afraid that if they test their results may somehow become public and because of that possibility don't want to test.

    When I look at my FF test results I can only see people's names attached to tests. They in absolutely no way want their name or any other identification attached to a test they may take. How have others tackled this problem and how can I show them their data will be totally private if they take the FF test. They want to only swab their mouth, and let me handle everything else. With the NPE, getting them to test is an absolute necessity. Thanks for any help you can provide.

    Auslander

    Who isn't who he thought he was just a month ago.

  • #2
    Use a pseudonym for this shy relative.

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    • #3
      You can either use an alias, or you can go to the settings and privatize all levels of Family Finder prior to test completion.
      If person chooses to privatize all level of matching, they will also not see or have a matchlist.

      Persons last name will show up in Advanced matching though to those who would be on this kits match list if you hadn't privatize it, But no other info is shown, no email or identifying info, nothing but last name and what the relationship would be.

      To use a privatized FF kit,

      1)you could either download Raw Data and compare manually with David Pikes Utility
      http://www.math.mun.ca/~dapike/FF23utils/pair-comp.php

      2)run advanced matching on your kit and see if kit shows up in list. This option does not tell you how much DNA you share or where, just gives last name and relationship range if they would be a match.

      3)Upload kits to Gedmatch and set to Research, which does not show them on others lists but allows you to compare with your kit(s) and run admixtures.
      Last edited by prairielad; 12 June 2015, 07:02 PM. Reason: Added

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      • #4
        There is also the release form. I am not sure if that is just to allow FTDNA to place the results in Database or more.

        If it is just to allow results to be placed in Database then do not sign it, and just work with the Raw Data once test is complete via method 1 or 3 that I mentioned above.

        Edit - you also have the option of having sample destroyed after testing by contacting FTDNA. Otherwise they store remaining sample for, I believe, up to 25 years.
        I am sure they will also remove kit from system if requested too (Just get Raw Data files before you request removal)
        Last edited by prairielad; 12 June 2015, 07:16 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Auslander View Post
          Who isn't who he thought he was just a month ago.
          Truth is a healer. To live with a lie cannot be the solution. But of course your truth belongs to you and so I also would encourage your cousin to use a pseudonym.

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          • #6
            prairielad - Thanks for the very detailed answer, it is just what I needed to help me understand how to get my reluctant cousin to post.

            lgmayka - thanks for the answer. My cousin has no knowledge of the NPE and when I tell them the real reason I want them to test I may want to be anonymous myself, lol.

            PeBe - I make it a rule to never feed trolls but your case I will make an exception. Take your crap post and stuff it up your you know what, which is where it came from just like all the other crap you are spewing around on the forum.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Auslander View Post
              My cousin has no knowledge of the NPE and when I tell them the real reason I want them to test I may want to be anonymous myself, lol.
              You don't want to play with the cards on the table? That sounds almost criminal. Do you think he does not know his child is his own? Or he is not his fathers son? In any case you should ask a lawyer as anonymity does not protect you always.
              If your cousin is afraid to test (like the title of this thread says) then you should respect his limits. You may try to make him move his limits but not to break them by your own will, even not if being anonymous yourself.

              Originally posted by lgmayka View Post
              Use a pseudonym for this shy relative.
              It seems he himself needs also a pseudonym for what the intends to do.
              Last edited by PeBe; 14 June 2015, 12:28 AM.

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              • #8
                PeBe, You are jumping to conclusions. There is nothing in Auslander´s posts which indicates that the cousin´s limits and wishes will not be respected.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by LynCra View Post
                  PeBe, You are jumping to conclusions. There is nothing in Auslander´s posts which indicates that the cousin´s limits and wishes will not be respected.
                  If so, why does he himself want to be hidden in anonymity and not telling the truth about the real reason for this testing to the cousin?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    @PeBe

                    While you did not get my ironical answer in another thread, I try it more clearly:

                    This is a forum about questions and learning about DNA tests and especially for customers of FTDNA. Happy customers and those, who are not.

                    But: This is not a forum for hobby psychologists.
                    Last edited by Petra; 14 June 2015, 06:37 AM. Reason: Bold

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Petra View Post
                      But: This is not a forum for hobby psychologists.
                      I agree, in this case there is rather the need for a hobby lawyer. I am not sure if it is not even against federal law to do a testing without letting the person tested knowing the real reason for the test.

                      Remember, Ausländer wrote this about his reluctant cousin:
                      Originally posted by Auslander View Post
                      lgmayka - thanks for the answer. My cousin has no knowledge of the NPE and when I tell them the real reason I want them to test I may want to be anonymous myself, lol.
                      Last edited by PeBe; 14 June 2015, 08:17 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm just up front with people when trying to get them to be a DNA donor or otherwise involving themselves in genealogical research using DNA testing and I recommend that route to everyone.

                        It's cool to watch the CSI shows when they get the bad guy to drink a cup of coffee, throw the cup away and then grab it out of the trash to get a DNA sample, but, excepting that, not being 100% forthcoming with regard to getting a DNA sample is not an ethical approach.

                        If there was an "NPE", (which is an odd euphemism...there was a paternal event, just not the "pa" that was originally thought, but I digress...), I tell them exactly that and that I'm trying to prove or disprove Family Legend A that usually starts off with "well, Grandma/Grandpa was a free spirit and we never really knew..."

                        Then I let the donor make their own choices. I've had people tell me that regardless of the outcome, they didn't want to know the results, and those who embraced them. I've also had people say "not just no, but hell no!" and slam down the phone.

                        DNA for genealogical purposes isn't like a free subscription to FamilySearch.org where it's just a bunch of databases and user submissions that could give clues, but often not answer any questions with absolute confidence.

                        This is a scientific tool that has applications that are of particular use to genealogists, but it is blind as all such tools are and just reports results.

                        I always recommend that people read this article:

                        http://www.vox.com/2014/9/9/5975653/...ivorce-23andme

                        before buying a DNA kit for someone or doing one for themselves.
                        Last edited by Uncle Lucifer; 14 June 2015, 11:59 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Uncle Lucifer View Post

                          I always recommend that people read this article:

                          http://www.vox.com/2014/9/9/5975653/...ivorce-23andme

                          before buying a DNA kit for someone or doing one for themselves.

                          Wow, that story made me cringe and shiver. Thanks a lot for this link!
                          Last edited by PeBe; 14 June 2015, 12:36 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by PeBe View Post
                            Wow, that story made me cringe. Thanks a lot for this link!
                            What made me cringe is that someone who tells us in the first sentence that he's a stem cell and reproductive biologist does not realize that DNA testing has the potential to reveal hidden family secrets. Also, anyone who's tested at 23andMe knows about the multiple hoops that they force people to jump through before you can participate in the DNA Relatives feature. (The author wrote, "23andMe's way of protecting people is by giving users the chance to click that box to opt into the relative finder program. I think they're trying to protect people from themselves... He [the father] logged into his account, and Thomas [the half brother] wasn't showing up at all. I was so confused. We figured out that at the very bottom of your profile, there's a little box that says 'check this box if you want to see close family members in this search program.' Dad checked it, and Thomas' name appeared in his list. 23andMe said dad was 50 percent related with Thomas and that he was a predicted son.") That's the feature that revealed that the father had a child before he married. But the author of this article, with fair warning from 23andMe about potentially revealing family secrets, opted into DNA Relatives on his father's behalf.

                            Maybe the biggest cringe factor in this article is that the author believes it's 23andMe's fault that his parents divorced. The author was not told by 23andMe to reach out to his half brother but did. Then he informed his father about this "close relative" and asked him to click on "show close relatives." His father wanted to meet his son, whom he conceived before he married, and his wife objected, enough to divorce him. It sounds like this marriage had troubles before 23andMe came into the picture.

                            The lesson here is that you should investigate all the pros and cons before you embark on DNA testing or anything that has the possibility of upsetting others. Maybe the author knows his way around a biology lab, but he's clueless when it comes to interpersonal relationships.
                            Last edited by MMaddi; 14 June 2015, 12:57 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
                              ...he's clueless when it comes to interpersonal relationships.
                              Nothing you said is incorrect, but your final sentence hits home. Those of us trained as scientists are often somewhat "tone deaf" when considering uh...how to put it..."non-quantifiable aspects / outcomes" of a particular line of research, ie. the emotional stuff.

                              Speaking for myself, it's all just data to me; answers to a question or questions I'm asking and I've had it bite me in the butt before. I've had to learn to moderate my approach, unfortunately, from the horrified/stunned expressions of family members when I've (quite literally) laid a particularly upsetting and heretofore unknown or unspoken-of "data point" on the table before them. (In my case, it was a full page obituary showing a deceased family member lying in the front yard of a house after being shot in the chest during a Friday night poker game in the 1940s...one of the people at the table was a child of this person and my "hey, what's this all about" approach was completely insensitive. In my haste to confirm a lead, I did not consider everyone's feelings. Mea maxima culpa.)

                              As I said at the outset, it's all just data to me because I'm not invested in the outcome so much as I want the answer to the question, but that is not the case with everyone.

                              Not everyone wants that answer or can handle the ramifications thereof. The thing with DNA genealogy is with the power of the databases, people can get answers to a question they didn't really ask.

                              I do agree, though, for a molecular biology PhD, the guy really didn't think this one through. One of his freshman intro to biology classes could have figured this out in about 15 seconds.

                              L
                              Last edited by Uncle Lucifer; 14 June 2015, 01:05 PM.

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