Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Afraid to test

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • PeBe
    replied
    Originally posted by prairielad View Post
    Careful not to put words in someone else mouth and misconstrue statement. There was a LOL behind that statement.
    He is free to clarify, especially as this is such a sensitive field there should be no obscurity and no ambiguity.
    Last edited by PeBe; 14 June 2015, 09:12 PM. Reason: typo

    Leave a comment:


  • prairielad
    replied
    Originally posted by PeBe View Post

    ....

    But this is the story written. The case of Auslander here is a different story, he wants his cousins to do the test without "telling them the real reason I want them to test", he even says "I may want to be anonymous myself" when doing so.

    IMO this is not okay, not only morally but even in a juridical sense. Especially in such sensitive fields one should play with all cards on the table.
    Careful not to put words in someone else mouth and misconstrue statement. There was a LOL behind that statement.

    I will also add, to my understanding, this deals with a NPE in OPs line not this 2nd cousin
    Last edited by prairielad; 14 June 2015, 09:05 PM. Reason: added

    Leave a comment:


  • PeBe
    replied
    Originally posted by K. L. Adams View Post
    I doubt a therapist can fix what is really wrong with this phd guy.
    I am not sure if our "educated scientist" is to blame for the divorce of his parents. Sure, he gave them this DNA test as a present but both parents were old enough to know the implication and deal with it. I would say it was his mother leaving his father because she got jealous and could not handle the fact that her husband betrayed her once upon a time, this sounds much more probable then implying it was the husband leaving her or solely blaming the son for giving them this present in the first place.

    But this is the story written. The case of Auslander here is a different story, he wants his cousins to do the test without "telling them the real reason I want them to test", he even says "I may want to be anonymous myself" when doing so. In my opinion this is not okay, not only morally but even in a juridical sense. Especially in such sensitive fields one should play with all cards on the table.

    Edit: Sure, the truth heals but you have to be truthful yourself, too.
    Last edited by PeBe; 14 June 2015, 09:02 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Darren
    replied
    I just wanted to remind everyone to please keep it civil.

    -Darren
    Family Tree DNA

    Leave a comment:


  • K. L. Adams
    replied
    Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
    What made me cringe is that someone who tells us in the first sentence that he's a stem cell and reproductive biologist does not realize that DNA testing has the potential to reveal hidden family secrets. Also, anyone who's tested at 23andMe knows about the multiple hoops that they force people to jump through before you can participate in the DNA Relatives feature. (The author wrote, "23andMe's way of protecting people is by giving users the chance to click that box to opt into the relative finder program. I think they're trying to protect people from themselves... He [the father] logged into his account, and Thomas [the half brother] wasn't showing up at all. I was so confused. We figured out that at the very bottom of your profile, there's a little box that says 'check this box if you want to see close family members in this search program.' Dad checked it, and Thomas' name appeared in his list. 23andMe said dad was 50 percent related with Thomas and that he was a predicted son.") That's the feature that revealed that the father had a child before he married. But the author of this article, with fair warning from 23andMe about potentially revealing family secrets, opted into DNA Relatives on his father's behalf.

    Maybe the biggest cringe factor in this article is that the author believes it's 23andMe's fault that his parents divorced. The author was not told by 23andMe to reach out to his half brother but did. Then he informed his father about this "close relative" and asked him to click on "show close relatives." His father wanted to meet his son, whom he conceived before he married, and his wife objected, enough to divorce him. It sounds like this marriage had troubles before 23andMe came into the picture.

    The lesson here is that you should investigate all the pros and cons before you embark on DNA testing or anything that has the possibility of upsetting others. Maybe the author knows his way around a biology lab, but he's clueless when it comes to interpersonal relationships.
    I agree with your comment.

    As a son and as a grown man, my overall objective would have been to protect family members. I would have had the maturity to talk to my father in privacy verses talking to my sister and others first.

    This just proves you cannot fix stupid. I doubt a therapist can fix what is really wrong with this phd guy.

    Leave a comment:


  • prairielad
    replied
    Originally posted by prairielad View Post

    .......

    3)Upload kits to Gedmatch and set to Research, which does not show them on others lists but allows you to compare with your kit(s) and run admixtures.
    Auslander, Just to clarify on how to set kit to Research at Gedmatch, after you upload kit you go to EDIT or DELETE your DNA resource profiles. > select kit > edit > set to Research

    Leave a comment:


  • Uncle Lucifer
    replied
    Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
    ...he's clueless when it comes to interpersonal relationships.
    Nothing you said is incorrect, but your final sentence hits home. Those of us trained as scientists are often somewhat "tone deaf" when considering uh...how to put it..."non-quantifiable aspects / outcomes" of a particular line of research, ie. the emotional stuff.

    Speaking for myself, it's all just data to me; answers to a question or questions I'm asking and I've had it bite me in the butt before. I've had to learn to moderate my approach, unfortunately, from the horrified/stunned expressions of family members when I've (quite literally) laid a particularly upsetting and heretofore unknown or unspoken-of "data point" on the table before them. (In my case, it was a full page obituary showing a deceased family member lying in the front yard of a house after being shot in the chest during a Friday night poker game in the 1940s...one of the people at the table was a child of this person and my "hey, what's this all about" approach was completely insensitive. In my haste to confirm a lead, I did not consider everyone's feelings. Mea maxima culpa.)

    As I said at the outset, it's all just data to me because I'm not invested in the outcome so much as I want the answer to the question, but that is not the case with everyone.

    Not everyone wants that answer or can handle the ramifications thereof. The thing with DNA genealogy is with the power of the databases, people can get answers to a question they didn't really ask.

    I do agree, though, for a molecular biology PhD, the guy really didn't think this one through. One of his freshman intro to biology classes could have figured this out in about 15 seconds.

    L
    Last edited by Uncle Lucifer; 14 June 2015, 01:05 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • MMaddi
    replied
    Originally posted by PeBe View Post
    Wow, that story made me cringe. Thanks a lot for this link!
    What made me cringe is that someone who tells us in the first sentence that he's a stem cell and reproductive biologist does not realize that DNA testing has the potential to reveal hidden family secrets. Also, anyone who's tested at 23andMe knows about the multiple hoops that they force people to jump through before you can participate in the DNA Relatives feature. (The author wrote, "23andMe's way of protecting people is by giving users the chance to click that box to opt into the relative finder program. I think they're trying to protect people from themselves... He [the father] logged into his account, and Thomas [the half brother] wasn't showing up at all. I was so confused. We figured out that at the very bottom of your profile, there's a little box that says 'check this box if you want to see close family members in this search program.' Dad checked it, and Thomas' name appeared in his list. 23andMe said dad was 50 percent related with Thomas and that he was a predicted son.") That's the feature that revealed that the father had a child before he married. But the author of this article, with fair warning from 23andMe about potentially revealing family secrets, opted into DNA Relatives on his father's behalf.

    Maybe the biggest cringe factor in this article is that the author believes it's 23andMe's fault that his parents divorced. The author was not told by 23andMe to reach out to his half brother but did. Then he informed his father about this "close relative" and asked him to click on "show close relatives." His father wanted to meet his son, whom he conceived before he married, and his wife objected, enough to divorce him. It sounds like this marriage had troubles before 23andMe came into the picture.

    The lesson here is that you should investigate all the pros and cons before you embark on DNA testing or anything that has the possibility of upsetting others. Maybe the author knows his way around a biology lab, but he's clueless when it comes to interpersonal relationships.
    Last edited by MMaddi; 14 June 2015, 12:57 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • PeBe
    replied
    Originally posted by Uncle Lucifer View Post

    I always recommend that people read this article:

    http://www.vox.com/2014/9/9/5975653/...ivorce-23andme

    before buying a DNA kit for someone or doing one for themselves.

    Wow, that story made me cringe and shiver. Thanks a lot for this link!
    Last edited by PeBe; 14 June 2015, 12:36 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Uncle Lucifer
    replied
    I'm just up front with people when trying to get them to be a DNA donor or otherwise involving themselves in genealogical research using DNA testing and I recommend that route to everyone.

    It's cool to watch the CSI shows when they get the bad guy to drink a cup of coffee, throw the cup away and then grab it out of the trash to get a DNA sample, but, excepting that, not being 100% forthcoming with regard to getting a DNA sample is not an ethical approach.

    If there was an "NPE", (which is an odd euphemism...there was a paternal event, just not the "pa" that was originally thought, but I digress...), I tell them exactly that and that I'm trying to prove or disprove Family Legend A that usually starts off with "well, Grandma/Grandpa was a free spirit and we never really knew..."

    Then I let the donor make their own choices. I've had people tell me that regardless of the outcome, they didn't want to know the results, and those who embraced them. I've also had people say "not just no, but hell no!" and slam down the phone.

    DNA for genealogical purposes isn't like a free subscription to FamilySearch.org where it's just a bunch of databases and user submissions that could give clues, but often not answer any questions with absolute confidence.

    This is a scientific tool that has applications that are of particular use to genealogists, but it is blind as all such tools are and just reports results.

    I always recommend that people read this article:

    http://www.vox.com/2014/9/9/5975653/...ivorce-23andme

    before buying a DNA kit for someone or doing one for themselves.
    Last edited by Uncle Lucifer; 14 June 2015, 11:59 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • PeBe
    replied
    Originally posted by Petra View Post
    But: This is not a forum for hobby psychologists.
    I agree, in this case there is rather the need for a hobby lawyer. I am not sure if it is not even against federal law to do a testing without letting the person tested knowing the real reason for the test.

    Remember, Ausländer wrote this about his reluctant cousin:
    Originally posted by Auslander View Post
    lgmayka - thanks for the answer. My cousin has no knowledge of the NPE and when I tell them the real reason I want them to test I may want to be anonymous myself, lol.
    Last edited by PeBe; 14 June 2015, 08:17 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Petra
    replied
    @PeBe

    While you did not get my ironical answer in another thread, I try it more clearly:

    This is a forum about questions and learning about DNA tests and especially for customers of FTDNA. Happy customers and those, who are not.

    But: This is not a forum for hobby psychologists.
    Last edited by Petra; 14 June 2015, 06:37 AM. Reason: Bold

    Leave a comment:


  • PeBe
    replied
    Originally posted by LynCra View Post
    PeBe, You are jumping to conclusions. There is nothing in Auslander´s posts which indicates that the cousin´s limits and wishes will not be respected.
    If so, why does he himself want to be hidden in anonymity and not telling the truth about the real reason for this testing to the cousin?

    Leave a comment:


  • LynCra
    replied
    PeBe, You are jumping to conclusions. There is nothing in Auslander´s posts which indicates that the cousin´s limits and wishes will not be respected.

    Leave a comment:


  • PeBe
    replied
    Originally posted by Auslander View Post
    My cousin has no knowledge of the NPE and when I tell them the real reason I want them to test I may want to be anonymous myself, lol.
    You don't want to play with the cards on the table? That sounds almost criminal. Do you think he does not know his child is his own? Or he is not his fathers son? In any case you should ask a lawyer as anonymity does not protect you always.
    If your cousin is afraid to test (like the title of this thread says) then you should respect his limits. You may try to make him move his limits but not to break them by your own will, even not if being anonymous yourself.

    Originally posted by lgmayka View Post
    Use a pseudonym for this shy relative.
    It seems he himself needs also a pseudonym for what the intends to do.
    Last edited by PeBe; 14 June 2015, 12:28 AM.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X