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  • YDNA 111

    I have found some matches of '0' distance on my YDNA search of 12 markers that are from ydna 111. How close a relation is this. I have also found matches with a 2 distance on my 25 markers for YDNA 67. Again what is the significance of this?

  • #2
    The general rule of thumb is that only matches at 37 or more markers are considered significant. Matches at 12 or 25 markers just don't have enough resolution to be considered reliable in most cases.

    If someone shows up as a match to you at 12 or 25 markers, but doesn't show up at 67 markers, this shows that the match is probably not significant. This is especially the case for those in haplogroup R-M269, which is the most common one among men with European ancestry.

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    • #3
      thanks Maddi

      What would the significance of a two marker match at the 37 level , which indicates a YDNA 67 match/marker. Would this be a relative or a very recent family branch? Just to pick your brains a bit more...

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      • #4
        Originally posted by owain View Post
        What would the significance of a two marker match at the 37 level , which indicates a YDNA 67 match/marker. Would this be a relative or a very recent family branch? Just to pick your brains a bit more...
        It might be. You should always look at the highest level both sides of the match have tested.

        Let's say someone matches you 35/37 and both of you have tested 67 markers. If he fails to show up on your 67 marker match list, then the match is not that signficant.

        In order to show up as a match at 67 markers, the match must be 60/67 or better. If he matched you 35/37 but isn't on your 67 marker match list, that means that he doesn't match you 60/67 or better. In that case, the common ancestor probably lived several hundred years ago or even over 1,000 years ago.

        If both of you haven't tested 67 markers, then the one who hasn't would need to upgrade to see if the match holds at the higher level. If the match is potentially important to answering whatever question you're trying to answer, then whoever needs to upgrade to 67 should do so. It may be that you would have to pay for the match's upgrade, if he's not that interested in seeing how close the match is at 67 markers.

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        • #5
          owain,

          Also look into BigY SNP testing. Depending on your situation the benefit might not be realized immediately but it should be over the next few years and in only rare cases would you need to get further SNP testing after the BigY. You can see how even 67 STR marker matches aren't good enough sometimes and BigY is providing more resolution. See the following thread for examples - http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=37531

          There is a $100 BigY coupon that is good through April 30. The coupon code is DNADayBigY

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          • #6
            thank you Armando

            Ok I am getting somewhere here...so I looked again at what test I had done and it was a YDNA37 test. However , on my 37 marker matches I have two things I don't understand;
            1)I have a 37 marker match at a two distance, but the match is listed as YDNA67 match(next to the tip button).
            2)I have a 37 marker match at a distance of 3 , but the match is listed as a YDNA111 match (next to the 'tip' button). Also , I have 'ff' marked next to a few of my matches . Is this Family finder and what does it mean?I purchased this 2 days ago , and that seems a bit quick in terms of results.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by owain View Post
              Ok I am getting somewhere here...so I looked again at what test I had done and it was a YDNA37 test. However , on my 37 marker matches I have two things I don't understand;
              1)I have a 37 marker match at a two distance, but the match is listed as YDNA67 match(next to the tip button).
              2)I have a 37 marker match at a distance of 3 , but the match is listed as a YDNA111 match (next to the 'tip' button). Also , I have 'ff' marked next to a few of my matches . Is this Family finder and what does it mean?I purchased this 2 days ago , and that seems a bit quick in terms of results.
              These do not mean they match you at these level, these show you what level and/or other test (ie FF - Family Finder) your match has done. You can only match those to the level of testing you have done, which in your case from my understanding is to the 37 marker level. Any markers above the 37 marker level can not be compared (67 or 111 level) until you have tested those markers.

              You would have to test to these levels yourself if interested and seeing how these matches hold out on the higher levels (67 and 111)

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              • #8
                thanks prairielad

                So haplogroups... I seem to be RM 269 , yet I have a few 37 matches with a 2-4 difference that are L-21, R-BY157 , R-Z253 and R-P25. From google searches I think that the R starter indicates an Eastern European to western European migration ( i could well be wrong) , but I am not sure what the L-21 is. I have no family history on the paternal side and I have an Irish maternal side.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by owain View Post
                  So haplogroups... I seem to be RM 269 , yet I have a few 37 matches with a 2-4 difference that are L-21, R-BY157 , R-Z253 and R-P25. From google searches I think that the R starter indicates an Eastern European to western European migration ( i could well be wrong) , but I am not sure what the L-21 is. I have no family history on the paternal side and I have an Irish maternal side.
                  L21 is a subclade of R-M269. Z253 is also a subclade of L21. BY157 is a subclade of Z253. R-P25 is from before R-M269.

                  You are extremely likely to be L21 and possibly BY157. You can search for it at https://www.familytreedna.com/my/y-dna-haplotree to it's placement on the FTDNA tree. If you click on ADD you can order the individual SNP test.

                  As I stated in my previous post you can get the most from a BigY test as opposed to a 67 or 111 marker upgrade especially since you are almost surely L21.

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                  • #10
                    ethnicity

                    Just wondering if there is any indication of ethnicity within the two groups that you referred to . From your links l-21 seems to be Celtic over a good few millennia. However , the other group that you mentioned , I can't seem to source on the link or find anywhere else.

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                    • #11
                      Z253 looks to also be Celtic. That's not surprising since it descends from L21. Everyone that is positive for L21 descends from a single man that first had that mutation. Everyone that is Z253 descends from that first L21 male and also from the first male that had the Z253 mutation. So if the L21 people are Celtic then it would be expected that Z253 is also and so on.

                      See the following sites -
                      https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults
                      http://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z253/
                      http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=15

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