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  • 3 Mutations, I really need help

    Hi,
    Im brand new to this. I just received my results back and found that I have 3 mutations. What does that mean? Ive looked at many projects and I dont see anyone with that many. My Dad was exposed to agent orange in Vietnam so im not sure if that has anything to do with it. Any help with understanding this and my results what be greatly appreciated.
    Attached Files

  • #2
    What kind of test are you talking about?

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    • #3
      @dax82

      You may not see that, but your attachment is not visible to us, yet... (pending approval).

      As user Sarmat has asked, please describe the test you had taken and mutations you are seeing (and anything else that might help us in analyzing your results).

      Thank you - W. (Mr.)

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      • #4
        Thank you for replying

        I took the y-37 DNA test. The markers that came back as mutated are : DYS458/ DYS454/ and DYS449. Hopefully the attachment will be approved soon. Thanks again you guys for your help.

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        • #5
          https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/...-results-page/

          A null value for a marker is infrequent (see above). So I understand a reason for your question.

          I do not know enough of genetics to know whether/how/why this type of a mutation is different. The other (non-null) STR values are also mutations.

          Do you have a haplogroup prediction? Maybe there is a haplogroup project where you can make comparisons you otherwise would be unable to make.

          Do you have any matches beyond 12 markers?

          W. (Mr.)

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          • #6
            haplogroup

            Im in haplogroup rm-269 and have no matches beyond 12 markers.

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            • #7
              I am sorry, I re-read what I had written and I was not clear.

              By saying that the other STR values are also mutations, I meant to state that there is no universal stable value for these STRs. And that was actually one of the reasons those particular STRs were chosen for genealogical research. Over millennia, mutations resulted in your other (non-null) STRs having some values and that made it possible to predict that you are in a haplogroup R-M269 (and not in one of the dozens of other major haplogroups).

              I do not know whether anybody tried to guess what STR markers values Y-chromosomal Adam possibly could have had...

              W. (Mr.)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by dax82 View Post
                Im in haplogroup rm-269 and have no matches beyond 12 markers.
                Your three null values are all in the same region:
                DYS458 - 7867839 to 7867961
                DYS454 - 8224083 to 8224282
                DYS449 - 8217908 to 8218262

                So it appears that at some point in your patrilineage, a small segment of the Y chromosome was deleted. This is not all that uncommon--almost the entire haplogroup N has such a deletion.

                However, these three null values will prevent you from matching anyone according to FTDNA's automatic algorithm. To find matches, you would have to use Ysearch instead, where a zero means simply that the marker should be ignored for matching purposes.
                Last edited by lgmayka; 20 March 2015, 04:52 AM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by dax82 View Post
                  Hi,
                  Im brand new to this. I just received my results back and found that I have 3 mutations. What does that mean? Ive looked at many projects and I dont see anyone with that many. My Dad was exposed to agent orange in Vietnam so im not sure if that has anything to do with it. Any help with understanding this and my results what be greatly appreciated.
                  This is extremely odd. In all my 600+ members, I have seen fewer than a dozen and probably more nearly half a dozen null voids and never have I seen two in a single test.

                  This looks to me like a lab reporting problem and your results were pushed as completed and shouldn't have been. To have 3 null voids in one panel (markers 13-25) sends up a red flag.

                  I suggest you report this and ask for someone to review the results. Of course with the way things are going in the labs, you may be waiting until next year. You will never get matches with those 3 null voids!

                  Good luck!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TurnerAdm View Post
                    I suggest you report this and ask for someone to review the results. Of course with the way things are going in the labs, you may be waiting until next year. You will never get matches with those 3 null voids!
                    I support Ann's advice; report it and ask for a review. It's worth being sure. If those three markers really are nulls (deletions) that's rare. In my project, with >600 Y-STR results, we've seen only a few nulls (spread out among the 600 men) and some of those went away after review.

                    With any null value, the apparent genetic distance is so large that the only ones you can match with FTDNA's algorithm will have nulls on the same markers.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rt-sails View Post
                      I support Ann's advice; report it and ask for a review. It's worth being sure. If those three markers really are nulls (deletions) that's rare. In my project, with >600 Y-STR results, we've seen only a few nulls (spread out among the 600 men) and some of those went away after review.

                      With any null value, the apparent genetic distance is so large that the only ones you can match with FTDNA's algorithm will have nulls on the same markers.
                      Are you seeing with your project members that the Family Tree DNA Learning Center documentation on How is genetic distance calculated for NULL values? https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/...e-null-values/ is incorrect?
                      How is genetic distance calculated for NULL values?

                      For Y-Chromosome DNA STR matching, genetic distance is calculated as a single NULL causing event. The NULL value causing event is treated as a single step event with a genetic distance of one. The one exception is for the STR marker DYS439. The difference there between a value of say 12 and a NULL value is calculated as a genetic distance of 12.
                      W. (Mr.)

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                      • #12
                        thanks

                        Thanks everyone. my first step will be to contact family tree to have them take a second look at my results. Lets hope they're wrong and I can get a full panel of results to look at

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                        • #13
                          [QUOTE=rt-sails;405289]I support Ann's advice; report it and ask for a review.

                          Disclaimer: The Turner Adm is NOT Ann Turner. Ann is an expert in the field of genetic genealogy and professional working in the field. She would likely take offense at having what I might write attributed to her. She is not associated with the Turner DNA Project except having a kit in the project she is the contact for.

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                          • #14
                            I reported it

                            Hi all thank you for your help. I did report it and they told me it was accurate. I kinda feel like they didn't check, It just seems like its a mistake. I've looked through so many dna projects and nobody has that many null values. My dad was dusted on many occasions with agent orange in Vietnam, i very much doubt that it has anything to do with it but it is in the back of my head that maybe there is a connection

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dax82 View Post
                              Hi all thank you for your help.

                              I've looked through so many dna projects and nobody has that many null values.
                              I'll bet you didn't look at kit 61144 in the Powell project. See https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ame=ycolorized

                              He has 4 null values.

                              I wish FTDNA would mark these with 00 or something else that would be easy to search for. Maybe Darren will send this in as a suggestion.

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