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Y dna of Burwell Spence???

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  • Y dna of Burwell Spence???

    I recently decided to take the Y dna test. My reasons were twofold. My paternal grandfather was born out of wedlock and I wanted to prove or disprove rumors about who his father was. The second reason was to see who I would match up to. I did not match up to males from the family of the man who was rumored to have been his father. So, the rumors have been dispelled! I did however match up to all 6 men who are descendants of Burwell Spence of Carroll Co., VA. There is only one of them that has taken the 37 marker test. Is there anyone out there that reads these forums that can tell me by looking at our 37 markers whether or not I do indeed descend from Burwell Spence? Here are his markers:

    14 24 14 11 11-14 12 12 11 13 13 30 18 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 28 15-16-17-17 11 10 19-23 17 15 17 17 37-37 11 12

    And here are mine:

    14 24 14 11 12-14 12 12 12 13 13 30 18 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 28 15-16-17-17 11 10 19-23 17 15 17 17 38-38 11 12

    My grandfather was born in Patrick Co., VA where some of Burwell Spence's descendants moved to. Is it pssible I am descended from him?

  • #2
    The results are too close to disprove, as genetic distance (GD) is 4, I hope I counted it right...

    Burwell Spence born 1763 in Bedford Co. VA, died 1844-03-23 in Carroll Co. VA ?

    You can try Family Finder. But it looks to me that it would be just beyond the Family Finder horizon. Well..., it really depends on who is being tested, as in how far they are potentially related. And since in my opinion the best results are for up to 3rd cousins, I would not hope to get the answer you are looking for. May be somebody knowledgeable offers a better advice on Family Finder.

    SNP testing is expensive (even Big Y), but the negative outcome gives the definite answer. Both you and his known descendant(s) would need to test.

    Testing more STRs (Y-67 marker or Y-111 marker test) might allow you to catch a potential target into your net, but no guarantee.

    W.
    Last edited by dna; 4 February 2015, 12:00 AM.

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    • #3
      FTDNA may call this a GD 3. I'm never sure how they count the differences at multipeak markers like CDY where you show 37-37 and 38-38.

      Do you have other matches at 37 markers? How close are they?

      Y-DNA (STR or SNP) will never prove that you descend from a particular person. It will only indicate that you may share a common ancestor.

      Do you know that men descending form the man rumored to have been his father have tested. If not, all you have shown at this point is that he didn't match anyone with that surname.

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      • #4
        Jim-The man rumored to have been his father does have relatives who have tested and they do not match me at all. Not even close! My grandfather was born in Patrick Co., VA and there are several Spence men that match me at 25 markers. All of these men descend from Burwell Spence. There is only one Spence that has taken the 37 marker test and he is a match also.

        Jamie

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Holtbanjoman View Post
          Jim-The man rumored to have been his father does have relatives who have tested and they do not match me at all. Not even close! My grandfather was born in Patrick Co., VA and there are several Spence men that match me at 25 markers. All of these men descend from Burwell Spence. There is only one Spence that has taken the 37 marker test and he is a match also.

          Jamie
          The only way that you will be sure is for you and one of the Spence males to do the Big-Y test.If you both match in SNPs then you have the same recent paternal ancestor. Your close match at present shows that you have the same ancestor but how far back in time you cannot determine until you do these tests.

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          • #6
            I forgot to mention that I also match several of Burwell Spence's descendants though the family finder test. I share no other lines with them and they show up as 4th cousins in my matches. How do you explain that?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Holtbanjoman View Post
              I forgot to mention that I also match several of Burwell Spence's descendants though the family finder test. I share no other lines with them and they show up as 4th cousins in my matches. How do you explain that?
              I got an email from a person yesterday about our FF match. She has a name in her family that matches mine.I asked her to test her cousin for YDNA to see if we match through it as well. I hope she will be able to persuade him to do it. I will post the outcome. If we want to succeed with this we have to share and compare. It is the only way forward.
              You are related to these Spence people and you may be on to something. Thanks for posting this.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Holtbanjoman View Post
                I forgot to mention that I also match several of Burwell Spence's descendants though the family finder test. I share no other lines with them and they show up as 4th cousins in my matches. How do you explain that?
                You have to look at your ancestors 5 generations from you (32 ancestors) or 6 generations from you (64 ancestors). And the same for your matches. Do you see the same people in your ancestor tree and in their ancestor trees?

                W.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Holtbanjoman View Post
                  I forgot to mention that I also match several of Burwell Spence's descendants though the family finder test. I share no other lines with them and they show up as 4th cousins in my matches. How do you explain that?
                  How well do you match them? How many cMs?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dna View Post
                    You have to look at your ancestors 5 generations from you (32 ancestors) or 6 generations from you (64 ancestors). And the same for your matches. Do you see the same people in your ancestor tree and in their ancestor trees?

                    W.
                    No, they have none of the same ancestors in their tree as me. I figure that since my Y DNA matched up to the Spence males descended from Burwell Spence and I also match Burwell Spence descendants through familyfinder then I must be descended from Burwell Spence, but I am a novice at this. Genetic Genealogy is new to me. I stuck to the paper trail until 2014 and then decided to do the DNA testing for my paternal line.

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                    • #11
                      Just to clarify. Both you and your matches have complete trees of all ancestors going back 6 generations ? Including all maiden names and names from previous marriages ?

                      In Family Finder connections due to a common g*-grandmother can be seen, but if she was a widow, some of her husbands could be lost, sometimes surname of her former husband could have been used in the next wedding document and not her maiden name, etc...

                      W.

                      P.S. There should be 127 people in such a tree (when including you and excluding anybody beyond 6 generations)...

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Holtbanjoman View Post
                        No, they have none of the same ancestors in their tree as me. I figure that since my Y DNA matched up to the Spence males descended from Burwell Spence and I also match Burwell Spence descendants through familyfinder then I must be descended from Burwell Spence, but I am a novice at this. Genetic Genealogy is new to me. I stuck to the paper trail until 2014 and then decided to do the DNA testing for my paternal line.
                        Well,there is one thing that you can be sure of, you are related to these Spence people because this dna stuff is very accurate.

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                        • #13
                          Burwell Spence

                          Hi. Please answer back soon! Yes, you may indeed descend from Burwell Spence. Both my sons were tested to prove descent.Which kit number do you match? I think it may have been my sons. We had a sister who married a Holt and lived in Patrick County. My husband was born there in Stuart.

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