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Irish Descended from Basques

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  • Irish Descended from Basques

    I read a theory recently that the Irish are of Basque rather than Celtic/Gaelic descent. Looking at my "Recent Ethnic Origins Report" from FTDNA, my exact matches plus one, two and three step mutations shows overwhelming matches with various elements of the UK but mostly English, Irish and Scottish in that order and then Germany and France being the next largest matches. Although there are several Spanish matches including Sephardic, Catalunya, Galicia and Basque, these matches are in the ones and twos and only in the various mutation steps while all of the other matches mentioned above are in the hundreds. If the Irish were indeed descended from the Basques it would seem that their representation would be much larger. Some of the French matches could be Basque but there is no indication of that in the report. Has anyone else seen this theory espoused?
    Last edited by wmccown; 16 February 2006, 01:12 AM. Reason: clarification

  • #2
    Originally posted by wmccown
    I read a theory recently that the Irish are of Basque rather than Celtic/Gaelic descent. Looking at my "Recent Ethnic Origins Report" from FTDNA, my exact matches plus one, two and three step mutations shows overwhelming matches with various elements of the UK but mostly English, Irish and Scottish in that order and then Germany and France being the next largest matches. Although there are several Spanish matches including Sephardic, Catalunya, Galicia and Basque, these matches are in the ones and twos and only in the various mutation steps while all of the other matches mentioned above are in the hundreds. If the Irish were indeed descended from the Basques it would seem that their representation would be much larger. Some of the French matches could be Basque but there is no indication of that in the report. Has anyone else seen this theory espoused?

    no one invading arminy ,migrating people or group of people are one haplogroup . it just doesnt happen.

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    • #3
      You may be referring to a paper published by TCD five years ago that is available in FTDNA's library. It is called "Y-Chromosome Variation and Irish Origins. I don't think the paper concluded that Irish and Basques are closely related, but rather that men from Connaught and the Basques both retain high percentages of hunter-gatherer DNA--presumably independent of each other.

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      • #4
        There is a Basque DNA Project listed under "Geographical Projects".. "B"

        It's a fairly new project.

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        • #5
          Irish Descended from Basques

          Thanks for your responses. I have read that in historic times, as least as recently as the 16th century that there was an aborignal people and language in Northern Scotland with no known relationship with the Norse, Gaels or the Picts. Also that the Picts also inhabited parts of Ireland and that there was a tribe of similar language to the aboriginal tribe in Scotland.

          I do not know that the origins of those people were ever explored. Whatever, I am through with the Basque inquiry and thus will put all of the Basques in one exit.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by wmccown
            Thanks for your responses. I have read that in historic times, as least as recently as the 16th century that there was an aborignal people and language in Northern Scotland with no known relationship with the Norse, Gaels or the Picts. Also that the Picts also inhabited parts of Ireland and that there was a tribe of similar language to the aboriginal tribe in Scotland.

            I do not know that the origins of those people were ever explored. Whatever, I am through with the Basque inquiry and thus will put all of the Basques in one exit.

            America B.C. BY BARRY FELL [PELL]?

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            • #7
              a Basque report

              http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/1256894.stm

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              • #8
                I was wondering about the tribe called the Tuatha De Danann.

                I think someone referred to them in these forums as the Tribe of Dan?

                another idea has them as the People of the Goddess Danu

                http://www.timelessmyths.com/celtic/danann.html

                ya gotta love the myths
                Last edited by M.O'Connor; 19 February 2006, 12:06 PM.

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                • #9
                  derinos

                  Ah ThE mYths! Some are ordinary "historical" events romanticised, and remarkably persistent. In the Welsh book (mentioned in MOConnors post) called the Mabinogion, written in the 8th C from oral tradition, there is a pleasing tale of a young mens' rustling raid. ("Mabinogion" means "tales of the young men").
                  The target was the new treasure of a neighboring tribe, some the first domestic pigs to arrive in Britain, described in some detail, and lauded for their exotic cooking flavors.

                  The punch line is that the archaeology of middens shows the domestic pig being first cooked and eaten in those parts about 6000 BCE.

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                  • #10
                    Irish Descended from Basques

                    Thanks for the inputs and links by M.O'Connor and the input by derinos. I read the links offered and ran across several of the "myths" I had read from others. One source was a mystery novel featuring a 7th century Irish Nun. It contained the story of a ruler in Spain building a tower so tall that he could see a land mass that later proved to be Erin. Also, there are many versions of the Tuatha DeDannan or the shinning people. One story was that they covered themselves with sands with a high mica content to give themselves a shining appearance to terrify their enemies. I have read the book of Galatians and passages from it many times. I do not remember any Biblical commentary on the ethnicity of the people but apparently the apostle Paul could communicate either with them or with Jewish Christians. Apparently the Scythians were a formidable fighting force before the Roman occupation.

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                    • #11
                      There's a history book that says that the Irish were originally from Iberia which later became Spain and Portugal. Supposedly they left Iberia because of famine.

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                      • #12
                        I think that the supposed link between the Basques & Irish is based on the fact that an overwhelming majority of y-DNA signatures in both groups are R1b. This demonstrates that indeed the two share a common patriline. Some have contended that all of the ancient R1b spoke a language similar to Basque & for some reason, all of the R1b folk, except the Basque, switched to Indo European after exposure to the new language.

                        However, DNA only tells us who is related to whom & NOT which languages people were speaking in ancient days. I have contended in the past that if two parents speak the same language, their children will most likely speak that language. If biological parents speak different languages, I think the language of the mother is more likely to be taught to the child, simply because the child will most likely spend a lot more time with her. Bryan Sykes in "The Seven Daughters of Eve" stated that of the 7 major founding matrilines of Europe (Helena, Velda, Ursula, Katrine, Xenia, Tara, and Jasmine), the Jasmine line is NOT found among the Basque (this observation may have since been debunked -his book is a few years old), but is found in every Indo European speaking group in Europe. The other six are found in both the Basque and IE speakers.

                        Jasmine (or J) has been linked by many to the neolithic population that brought agriculture from the Near East to Europe perhaps 8,000 years ago. This population presumably carried the other six markers as well, but J stands out. I suspect that this population brought Indo European languages to Europe as well. The technological/ economic advantages associated with the new population may have persuaded native Europeans to adopt the new language, or at least allow their native languages to become Indo Europeanized.

                        This may explain how the overwhelming majority of R1b (including the Irish) came to speak Indo European languages.

                        Timothy Peterman

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by haplogroupc
                          There's a history book that says that the Irish were originally from Iberia which later became Spain and Portugal. Supposedly they left Iberia because of famine.
                          People spread into the British islaes from Spain and France when the Ice-Age Glaciers receaded.

                          R1b was supposedly in Western Europe before the last ice-age. Others probably mixed in the group too

                          Subsequent People have entered Ireland since, by migration and invasion.

                          I would think Spain has been ivaded and populated more times than Ireland.

                          You may find a broader mix of Haplo's in Spain than Ireland.

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