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Results Changed from R1b to R1b1!

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  • Results Changed from R1b to R1b1!

    What is going on around here? Within the last two months, my haplotype results have changed from R1b to R1b1 and my DYS459a marker has changed from 10 to 9! I have made a call in to FT-DNA and they are going to get back to me...

    Perhaps I am not the R1b mutt I thought I was after all...

  • #2
    Originally posted by Lost-Sheep
    What is going on around here? Within the last two months, my haplotype results have changed from R1b to R1b1 and my DYS459a marker has changed from 10 to 9! I have made a call in to FT-DNA and they are going to get back to me...

    Perhaps I am not the R1b mutt I thought I was after all...
    At the FTDNA conference in Houston in 2004, they handed out the 2005 Y-DNA phylogenetic chart which had added the M343 mutation as the defining mutation for R1b. That meant that P25 would define R1b1; P25 is what FTDNA was testing for in their SNP tests for R1b. Someone asked - it may have been me - whether we R1b's would be redefined as R1b1's. The answer was yes. So more than a year later we ALL are - not just you.

    I don't know about your 459a marker, except that a 9 is common.

    Bill Hurst

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    • #3
      So..is an snp test required to determine this P25 factor?.

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      • #4
        I just double-checked my current DYS-459a marker against the Y-DNA certificate that FamilyTree DNA mailed to me back in November of 2005 when I ordered my 37-marker upgrade. FamilyTree DNA has DEFINITELY changed this marker from 10 to "9".

        I just attached a softcopy of my Y-DNA certificate to an e-mail and sent it off to try and find out what is going on down there in Texas!

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        • #5
          It would be nice if Family Tree DNA would, as a courtesy, notify both tested people & group administrators when they change the y-str results. Some of us do actually make a record of this data to preserve with our family histories.

          Timothy Peterman

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          • #6
            Originally posted by M.O'Connor
            So..is an snp test required to determine this P25 factor?.
            If you have taken a 12, 25, or 37 marker STR test, FTDNA would probably have made a good guess at your haplogroup. If they said you were an R1b and have now changed that to R1b1, they are probably correct. You could take a "Backbone SNP" test to confirm this. In fact, I think will now also test you for M269. I waiting until a result comes back for someone in my surname project to be sure of that statement. They don't offer a Deep Clade test for R1b, since there is at least an 80% chance you would not get defined any further than R1b1c. Do have a perfect or near perfect match with anyone who has taken a SNP test? If so, there is little need for you to take one. I've tested for every possible SNP in the R1b branch of the tree and I don't much more than I did when I started. But maybe someday there will be a benefit.

            Bill Hurst

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            • #7
              R1b subclade testing

              Originally posted by Bill Hurst
              If you have taken a 12, 25, or 37 marker STR test, FTDNA would probably have made a good guess at your haplogroup. If they said you were an R1b and have now changed that to R1b1, they are probably correct. You could take a "Backbone SNP" test to confirm this. In fact, I think will now also test you for M269. I waiting until a result comes back for someone in my surname project to be sure of that statement. They don't offer a Deep Clade test for R1b, since there is at least an 80% chance you would not get defined any further than R1b1c. Do have a perfect or near perfect match with anyone who has taken a SNP test? If so, there is little need for you to take one. I've tested for every possible SNP in the R1b branch of the tree and I don't much more than I did when I started. But maybe someday there will be a benefit.

              Bill Hurst
              Bill,

              My guess is that there are two main reasons why FTDNA does not currently offer deep clade testing for R1b.

              First of all, I think I heard an estimate that 70% or so of their yDNA database is R1b. If even 10% of those R1b customers ordered a deep clade test for R1b, FTDNA would be swamped and probably all deep clade testing would be slowed down significantly.

              The other reason is that EthnoAncestry late last year discovered 5 new R1b SNPs which do give at least a preliminary subclade differentiation for R1b. (Of course, as more people test for these new SNPs, more differentiation will be possible.) I doubt that FTDNA has all the information and testing technology for these new SNPs and therefore can't find them, even if they did offer R1b deep clade tests.

              I've been tested at EthnoAncestry and tested positive for one of the new SNPs, S21. I know of at least one other person who posts on this board who also tested S21+. I am recommending to R1b members of the Sicily Project who are interested in deep ancestry and furthering knowledge of R1b that they test at EthnoAncestry.

              Mike Maddi
              Co-administrator of the Sicily Project

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              • #8
                Results Changed from DYS459a-10 to DYS459a-9!

                Well...just my luck! After FTDNA reviewed the softcopy of the Y-DNA certificate that proved that I was not mistaking that my DYS459a allele had indeed mysteriously mutated from "10" to 9, they replied back via e-mail basically stating that they had never seen anything like this before!

                There is no explanation of how this phenomenon occurred. The lab will be pulling the pherogram of the results to confirm the 9 or 10 at DYS459a marker. Fortunately, this is not a crime investigation!

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                • #9
                  There's now an R1b1c with a Genographic Project kit number in the R1b group http://www.familytreedna.com/public/r1b/ . Are they doing deeper SNP testing for Genographic than they offer here?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rod
                    There's now an R1b1c with a Genographic Project kit number in the R1b group http://www.familytreedna.com/public/r1b/ . Are they doing deeper SNP testing for Genographic than they offer here?
                    There are actually four men with R1b1c results in the project; two from the Genographic Project, two original FTDNA customers. I've asked the project manager for confirmation, but my theory has been that if you sign up for an R1b Backbone SNP test, they actually give you the Deep Clade test. For us R1b's that's usually only one extra mutation.

                    Bill Hurst

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bill Hurst
                      There are actually four men with R1b1c results in the project; two from the Genographic Project, two original FTDNA customers. I've asked the project manager for confirmation, but my theory has been that if you sign up for an R1b Backbone SNP test, they actually give you the Deep Clade test. For us R1b's that's usually only one extra mutation.

                      Bill Hurst
                      Hmm.. all I got was P25+ from "batch 130" on Jan. 30. Since then (from a company with less than 2 week turnaround) I was confirmed R1b1c*. It must be selective..

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rod
                        Hmm.. all I got was P25+ from "batch 130" on Jan. 30. Since then (from a company with less than 2 week turnaround) I was confirmed R1b1c*. It must be selective..
                        So your personal page Haplogroup tab says you are P25+ and R1b1c*? Or have they changed that to M269?

                        Bill H.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bill Hurst
                          So your personal page Haplogroup tab says you are P25+ and R1b1c*? Or have they changed that to M269?

                          Bill H.
                          My personal page here says P25+. I took the R1b test at ethnoancestry and the results were R1b1c* or...
                          M126 ancestral (negative)
                          M153 ancestral (negative)
                          M160 ancestral (negative)
                          M269 derived (positive)
                          M37 ancestrai (negative)
                          M65 ancestral (negative)
                          S21 ancestral (negative)
                          S26 ancestral (negative)
                          S28 ancestral (negative)
                          S29 ancestral (negative)
                          SRY2627 ancestral (negative)

                          The test (including mailing to England) was faster than ftDNA too...

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