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Father and son with different haplogroups

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  • Father and son with different haplogroups

    My son and I are both at Y-111 but show different haplogroups. I am G-P303 and son is G-M201. I built up to Y-111 slowly and remember being G-M201 at one time. Are they both predicted haplogroups? Any explanation for the difference? Thank You, EdP

  • #2
    In project, it's in red or green ? Red is predicted, Green is confirmed.

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    • #3
      If you and your son aren't in a project you can log in to one of the kits then go to https://my.familytreedna.com/y-dna-haplotree/ to check if it's Tested Positive or Presumed Positive then do the same for the other kit.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by EdP View Post
        My son and I are both at Y-111 but show different haplogroups. I am G-P303 and son is G-M201. I built up to Y-111 slowly and remember being G-M201 at one time. Are they both predicted haplogroups? Any explanation for the difference? Thank You, EdP
        "In human genetics, Haplogroup G-P303 (P303) is a Y-chromosome haplogroup. It is a branch of haplogroup G (Y-DNA) (M201). In descending order, G-P303 is additionally a branch of G2 (P287), G2a (P15), G2a3 (L30 or S126) and finally G2a3b (L141). This haplogroup represents the majority of haplogroup G men in most areas of Europe west of Russia and the Black Sea. To the east, G2a3b1-except in the Caucasus Mountains area-is just a large or small minority among G persons in such locales as Turkey, the Middle East, Iran, the southern Caucasus area, China and India."

        I don't think that you should worry about it. You are both G.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by EdP View Post
          My son and I are both at Y-111 but show different haplogroups. I am G-P303 and son is G-M201. I built up to Y-111 slowly and remember being G-M201 at one time. Are they both predicted haplogroups? Any explanation for the difference? Thank You, EdP
          I also feel that my haplogroup should have been updated after I got a 67 pos. test. It should have reflected the haplogroup of my best matches, L448. Your situation convinces me that there is a problem with this process.

          P.S. I'm going to bite my tongue about the previous "Don't worry about it comment."
          Last edited by dwmorgan52; 9 December 2014, 12:39 PM. Reason: spelling

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          • #6
            Originally posted by dwmorgan52 View Post
            I also feel that my haplogroup should have been updated after I got a 67 pos. test. It should have reflected the haplogroup of my best matches, L448. Your situation convinces me that there is a problem with this process.

            P.S. I'm going to bite my tongue about the previous "Don't worry about it comment."
            You don't have to bite your tongue.If one takes a 111 marker test it doesn't mean that they will be given the most recent SNP status. One will have to pay for an SNP test. I have a relative who is still at U106. I didn't pay for any extra SNPs tests for him.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by 1798 View Post
              You don't have to bite your tongue.If one takes a 111 marker test it doesn't mean that they will be given the most recent SNP status. One will have to pay for an SNP test. I have a relative who is still at U106. I didn't pay for any extra SNPs tests for him.
              It seems that the Haplogroups are not assigned uniformly. Two or more people with the same dna will have different haplogroup assignments (or estimates). It would seem to me that, since your are told what your basic haplogroup is when you first test at 12 markers, that you could expect an updated haplogroup when you update to 111 markers. The report above, about a father and son with two different Haplogroups seems to be an indication of this problem.

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              • #8
                @

                @EdP, are the results of Y-DNA 111 marker test identical?

                W.

                P.S. Of course there could be a difference if one had the haplogroup predicted based on STRs, and the other tested for the terminal SNP.

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                • #9
                  If they match at 111 markers then he has nothing to worry about.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                    If they match at 111 markers then he has nothing to worry about.
                    Even if they don't match exactly he has nothing to worry about. It is normal for two different people with similar STR markers to be presumed positive for two different SNPs but both are always within the same haplogroup. Since G-P303 descends from G-M201 they simply presumed him to be positive for an SNP further down in the haplogroup G tree.
                    The only way to know what a person's terminal SNP is for sure is to have it tested. STR markers can be misleading and obviously are for this father-son pair. If they were both to get a Geno 2.0 test they would show to be terminal for an SNP on the same level.
                    If EdP had the G-P303 SNP tested by FTDNA then all he has to do is order the same SNP test for his son and he will also show tested positive which is much cheaper than a 111 marker upgrade.
                    Last edited by Armando; 10 December 2014, 06:39 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Armando View Post
                      Even if they don't match exactly he has nothing to worry about. It is normal for two different people with similar STR markers to be presumed positive for two different SNPs but both are always within the same haplogroup. Since G-P303 descends from G-M201 they simply presumed him to be positive for an SNP further down in the haplogroup G tree.
                      The only way to know what a person's terminal SNP is for sure is to have it tested. STR markers can be misleading and obviously are for this father-son pair. If they were both to get a Geno 2.0 test they would show to be terminal for an SNP on the same level.
                      If EdP had the G-P303 SNP tested by FTDNA then all he has to do is order the same SNP test for his son and he will also show tested positive which is much cheaper than a 111 marker upgrade.
                      He already stated that his son and him has tested to 111 so he should know without any further tests.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                        He already stated that his son and him has tested to 111 so he should know without any further tests.
                        Argh, I see that now. I was assuming you were saying that he should test to 111.

                        What I was trying to point out though is that FTDNA has a weird way of deciding when an SNP should be presumed positive and that is what is causing some confusion.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Armando View Post
                          Argh, I see that now. I was assuming you were saying that he should test to 111.

                          What I was trying to point out though is that FTDNA has a weird way of deciding when an SNP should be presumed positive and that is what is causing some confusion.
                          I only tested my son to 12 markers as the FF test showed I didn't need to go any further.I didn't doubt it but it was pointless even getting him tested.
                          If he has one YSNP different from me then it is specific to him.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                            I only tested my son to 12 markers as the FF test showed I didn't need to go any further.I didn't doubt it but it was pointless even getting him tested.
                            If he has one YSNP different from me then it is specific to him.
                            That is correct. But, the two of you would have to get a BigY or FullGenomes test to find that SNP.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Armando View Post
                              That is correct. But, the two of you would have to get a BigY or FullGenomes test to find that SNP.
                              It is not going to happen. Whatever SNPs I find will be sufficient for both of us. That's if I even take the Big-Y test.

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